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Madrid Fire Re-opens 9/11 Questions: Why did the twin towers fall so fast?

by : Apathy Kills
Monday February 14, 2005 - 04:45
90 comments

Madrid Fire Re-opens 9/11 Questions

Prior to 9/11, no steel building had ever collapsed due to fire. Here is a photo of the smoking buildings. wtc2, was on fire for less than an hour when it collapsed.

JPEG - 15.4 kb

Isn’t it odd, the wtc collapsed after an hour, and the black smoke indicates that fire wasn’t even burning hot. Now compare- this is the Madrid Fire, it burned for 10 hours and still has not collapsed.

JPEG - 22 kb

Why did wtc2 only last an hour before collapse while the Madrid building burned throughout?

This is wtc7, another building near the twin towers, it had two isolated fires which can be see here.

JPEG - 23 kb

This building, wtc7, also collapsed on 9/11, even though it was not hit with an airliner. http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/attack/wtc7.html

This is a recent fire in a Venezuelan skyskraper...

JPEG - 14.7 kb

it burned out of control for 17 hours, yet did not collapse. http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/venezuela_fire.html

Why did this building stand after a huge, 17 hour fire- but wtc7 collapsed after sustaining only minor fire damage? Why hasn’t the mainstream media ever mentioned wtc7’s collapse?

Are these honest and reasonable questions, or am I a traitor for asking them?



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Commentaires de l'article
 

> Madrid Fire Re-opens 9/11 Questions: Why did the twin towers fall so fast?
Monday February 14 - 05:49 - Posted by 1788987cd7084be7...

You are not a traitor - the traitors are in the White House!!

This is just another sample of the avalanche of evidence to show that 911 was an inside-job orchestrated by Israeli-dominated factions within the US administration.

Both Madrid and the wtc fires are reported to have burned at around 800degC - steel melts at around 1500degC. The WTC towers (110 stories) were needing to be immensely stronger than the madrid tower (approx 35 stories), yet both WTC towers collapsed in about one hour, completely, in a uniform and controlled way, straight down, in free-fall time (approx 10 secs) - ie: no resistance, regardless of no fires on any lower floors, and of the immense central columm of re-inforced concrete and steel, and of the outer structural skeletal wall of hundreds of steel support beams. IF --- IF any steel did melt, then it would have caused an asymetrical localised failure within one or two floors - which could not have resulted in the whole structure coming down. These, and the WTC building 7 were controlled demolitons folks.

The Madrid tower did not collapse even after 17 hours.

Forget about what the media say about fabricatedn whitewashed "enquiries" and reports from the "Government".




> Madrid Fire Re-opens 9/11 Questions: Why did the twin towers fall so fast?
Monday February 14 - 16:18 - Posted by 717c1d349efd1f55...

any way you cut it the whole ’collapse due to fire’ arguement is bunk. WTC7 was demolished, the lease owner said he made the decision to ’pull it’, and it doesnt take much to figure out why..
http://www.prisonplanet.com/article...



> Madrid Fire Re-opens 9/11 Questions: Why did the twin towers fall so fast?
Saturday April 2 - 04:31 - Posted by 5da5f30360a7319d...

There is considerable evidence that explosives were used, and mounting evidence that they were nuclear devices.
Compare the medical problems which have emerged subsequent to 9/11 to the medical problems of the people in the study of the effects of radiation poiioning done in the Martial Islands. The study of those effects is still ongoing. They medical problems match. For many more things that point to conspiracy and explosives being used, visit www.newguards.us/links.html.



> Madrid Fire Re-opens 9/11 Questions: Why did the twin towers fall so fast?
Monday October 16 - 20:40 - Posted by e179fb5f336cc702...

You can delete this if you want too, but the only explosives was the plane not anything else. Why don’t we focus on the lives lost and not pick this thing apart too much. We know that bin lauden and his men did this. And the reason is because we let others in this country and they are terrorists.



> Madrid Fire Re-opens 9/11 Questions: Why did the twin towers fall so fast?
Sunday July 15 - 21:53 - Posted by b845dbd934b43bbc...

Because to blindly accept something like this in the face of facts is to let a severe danger go unnoticed. Remembering the people also means finding out who is really responsible for their deaths.



> Madrid Fire Re-opens 9/11 Questions: Why did the twin towers fall so fast?
Monday September 12 - 08:13 - Posted by 89bf3214a6daa5f95976084e0ffea34f...

UR A MISS GUIDED INDIVIDUAL THAT NEEDS TO OPEN UR EYES!!!!!



> Madrid Fire Re-opens 9/11 Questions: Why did the twin towers fall so fast?
Monday September 24 - 23:12 - Posted by b03743864c4cbe5c...

Wow idiot what’s your name George’s beotch!! Shut up man and open your idiotic eyes your pres is a crook and a darn terrorist himself, freakin dumbanus!!



> Madrid Fire Re-opens 9/11 Questions: Why did the twin towers fall so fast?
Thursday November 25 - 13:44 - Posted by dae000a487f44566...

There is definitely evidence that explosives were used, but I have seen no evidence that nuclear devices were used. see ae911truthDOTorg. Either, way, same conclusion - deliberate acts, bullshit lie, somebody has to be held accountable.



> Madrid Fire Re-opens 9/11 Questions: Why did the twin towers fall so fast?
Monday February 14 - 23:50 - Posted by 41a30e0b46a68b75...

I don’t know that this proves much. The Madrid fire was in a much shorter (32 stories building) with only ten stories above the fire. There were more floors (more weight) above the fires at WTC, plus a much greater fuel source with those thousands of gallons of jet fuel. The steel doesn’t have to completely melt to cause collapse — prolonged exposure to high heat significantly weakens steel. On top of that (if you’ll pardon the pun), the WTC was additionally weakened by the collisions of the airplanes knocking out many support columns. The Madrid fire, as far as I know, was a fire only, no explosion or other mechanical assault on the structure.

Now, why WTC7 went down? That one still puzzles.



> Madrid Fire Re-opens 9/11 Questions: Why did the twin towers fall so fast?
Wednesday June 22 - 05:01 - Posted by c9974b2eafd913da...

Did you really make the statement above? You obviously have not looked at much of the information about this event. Those "thousands of gallons of jet fuel" burned up within minutes, so your argument doesn’t hold up. Within days after 9-11 someone suggested to me that the WTC buildings were imploded, and I argued adamantly against that suggestion. Later when I looked at the facts, I had to apologize to that man for being such a butt and not looking at his questions. Please look at the facts. It will change your life. Thanks. Daniel Schinzing, legal researcher.



> Madrid Fire Re-opens 9/11 Questions: Why did the twin towers fall so fast?
Saturday July 1 - 23:57 - Posted by abeab5fb7779a753...

Thats the problem the American people are not looking at the evidence they are listing is a bunch of controlled media in this country. These people are fooled by a press that is controlled by large defence contractors if not completely owned by them. I liked what you had to say it seems you are on the right track with the (facts and the real evidence!!



> Madrid Fire Re-opens 9/11 Questions: Why did the twin towers fall so fast?
Tuesday February 15 - 01:17 - Posted by 51ffa66711490d27...

SO true. ZOG is in full effect. There is much work for us to do.



> Madrid Fire Re-opens 9/11 Questions: Why did the twin towers fall so fast?
Tuesday February 15 - 07:51 - Posted by 27d47acc5be86ca4...

The WTC site was sold shortly before the disaster.

The asbestos cleanup would have cost in excess of $1 Billion

Lame Duck President Bush needed his "Pearl Harbour"

Buildings that seemingly had no connection to WTC 1 or 2 collapsed by themselves (Buildings 6 & 7)

Can you say "Controlled Demolition"?

Ask the Mossad why a group of Jewish moving men did a "HappyDance" as the buildings fell.

Ask Where the defence was in the most heavily defended building in the world, the Pentagon.

Why was the hole in the Pentagon Wedge 1 only 17 feet across when the body cylinder of a Boeing 757 is 45 feet in diameter and...... Where are all the parts?
Everything disappeared into a tiny hole on the base of the building? Hmmmm

Something smells in freedom land



> Madrid Fire Re-opens 9/11 Questions: Why did the twin towers fall so fast?
Thursday February 17 - 03:11 - Posted by 91e97cdd5a898797...

A friend worked for the IRS office housed in Bldg. #7. She said that there were FBI and CIA offices in that bldg, and NYC official shelters also. So lots of governmental types and spooks had access to do anything they wanted to. She got out safe but nearly had a breakdown when she heard that Bldg. #7 had fallen.



> Madrid Fire Re-opens 9/11 Questions: Why did the twin towers fall so fast?
Friday February 18 - 07:05 - Posted by 62337a3f229ed6bb...

I agree you are NOT a traitor! You, are a TRUE patriot!
We should suspect this Administration of the worst acts as they have done more then enough to make our suspicions founded.



> Madrid Fire Re-opens 9/11 Questions: Why did the twin towers fall so fast?
Sunday February 20 - 06:49 - Posted by 882a58c8b2b68f16...

I watched the Sears Tower implosion dozens of times because I’d worked there as a teenager and was terribly saddened that the powers that be chose to demolish rather that restore it. I even bought a framed photo of the collapse so that I’d never forget that sad day.

When I saw the collapse of the Twin Towers, it was like deja vu. But, I was told that the jet fuel caused it. Oh, Please!! That’s like saying that a teaspoonful of oil could melt a frying pan. The Twin Towers were imploded. Period.



> Madrid Fire Re-opens 9/11 Questions: Why did the twin towers fall so fast?
Monday February 21 - 06:06 - Posted by 4c1816460caf4de8...

The traitor (or monster) is at 1600 Penn. Ave. The more I look into Sept.11 the worse it gets.



> Madrid Fire Re-opens 9/11 Questions: Why did the twin towers fall so fast?
Wednesday February 23 - 00:15 - Posted by a76047084e7b3b61...

Towers towers fell because they were built without having to follow the building codes. The Port Authority is not required to follow any City, State or Federal codes. They used the cheapest and fasrtest methods of construction. The concrete was weak and disintegrated in the collapse. The steel joists were the lightest possible and more vulnurable to heat than more heavy construction. The open areas they wanted required long spans and necessarily left out intermeniate columns creating a weakness. There was little lateral bracing besides the exterior walls acting as shear walls.

The engineers and architects were overconfident and didn’t believe that the Building Code regulatiuons had any validity. They used the least stringent code requirements possible to build the largest office buildings in the world in order to gain financial advantage. They had a "policy" to follow the city codes but conducted the inspections and review of plans themselves.



> Madrid Fire Re-opens 9/11 Questions: Why did the twin towers fall so fast?
Tuesday March 8 - 08:27 - Posted by 4a3292aa2bfa8f53...

"Towers towers fell because they were built without having to follow the building codes. The Port Authority is not required to follow any City, State or Federal codes. They used the cheapest and fasrtest methods of construction. The concrete was weak and disintegrated in the collapse. The steel joists were the lightest possible and more vulnurable to heat than more heavy construction..."

Well, this sounds really good, but if you have passing familiarity with the Towers or the circumstances of that day, you would know that what this writer said is pure fabrication on his or her part.

Fact: the central core of the towers had 47 thick steel beams running up the center. Far from being the lightest gauge steel, these beams were made to withstand the impact of a 747, a jet some 2-1/2 times larger than a Boeing 767.

Fact: the outside of the building was ringed with over 200 steel beams, linked with the central columns with steel girders.

Fact: the heat of a fire of inefficiently-burning jet fuel would only been about half the temperature that is required to melt steel.

Fact: photos of the south tower clearly show several people at the edge of the building, standing in the hole made by the entrance of the first jet. The fires were cool and small enough that these people were able to walk to hole from where ever they were when the plane hit. The people in the photos show no evidence of being burned. Their clothes are not even singed—and one woman is wearing white pants!

Fact: the Towers were so strong that the impact from the jets did not even cause them to visibly sway. People within the towers said that when the jets hit, each tower rocked slightly once, then settled back into place and remained motionless afterwards.

Fact: fire has NEVER caused a steel framed building to collapse—even buildings hit by airliners (this has happened before, after all).

Fact: the seismic evidence from nearby universities clearly shows a cluster of explosions and also gives evidence that the buildings came down as fast as objects can in free-fall when there is no air resistance. And there was air resistance aplenty, yet it made no difference. In fact, one of the towers came down in just over 8 seconds—faster than free fall.

Fact: nothing in the fires that happened can explain the condition of the wreckage, but high tech explosives are the only thing short of a nuclear blast that could have crystallized the concrete and shredded the massive steel beams and girders into such neatly and uniformly sized chunks.

Fact: Buildings 5 and 6 inexplicably had larger fires than the towers, and burned for much longer, yet neither of them collapsed.

I could go on, but what is the point? Those who want to accept the saturation propaganda about the events of 9-11 will do so no matter what facts are placed in their path. But for those who believe that events happen for reasonable causes, and that the evidence left over is sufficient to reveal those causes when one evaluates said evidence unbiasedly, it is clear that those planes did not bring down those buildings. High tech explosives brought down those buildings in a controlled demolition. The basements and the footings for the massive steel girders were exploded first, as evidenced by the huge plume of smoke/dust/debris that rose from the plaza area a few moments before the first tower fell. The extremely hot spots that NASA documented a week after the buildings fell (some areas still as hot as 1300+º F) are evidence that the basement explosions took place, trapping the intense heat below the shredded rubble of the demolition job. Molten steel from the base of the beams was also found and documented, proving that the base of the beams had explosives attached to them. Otherwise, the heat from the upper floor fires would have been insulated away from the basements by the intervening hundred floors’ worth of shredded steel and crystallized concrete.

The only way that one can believe the official story is if they choose to believe the most amateur conspiracy theory of any I’ve ever heard: that terrorists with a couple of razor blade box cutters and no flying skills ran those jets into buildings, and somehow did what no one had ever done before: collapse a steel building with a relatively cool fire.



> Madrid Fire Re-opens 9/11 Questions: Why did the twin towers fall so fast?
Thursday March 10 - 23:30 - Posted by 1d6514f8dba92099...

Fact: The Port Authority used lightweight open web trusses to span the distance between the 47 heavy steel columns in the center and the strong exterior columns. Read the Fema and NIST reports. They used these trusses and thin lightweight concrete to save weight so they could build higher. The buildings withstood the impact but were not able to withstand the fires which came afterwards. Unprotected lightweight steel trusses distort and fail to carry their loads after about ten minutes when exposed to fire.The fireproofing was shown to be deficient in the towers.

Fact: The steel didn’t ’melt’ it first expands and bowes from increasing temperatures when heated and then looses strength over 1300 deg F.and eventually becomes elastic if it gets any hotter.

Fact; The people standing at the edge of the building in the hole made by the plane had the wind at their backs and the fires were not all that hot in the beginning. The fires were being pushed to the interior and accelerated in the south side by the extra air.

Fact; The sismic evidence shows the forces released by the collapse. Each floor weighed over 500 tons. A floor falling and impacting the floor below would transmit this force directly to the heavy steel columns which were directly connected to bedrock and would have transmitted the vibrations through the earth.

Fact: There is always a first time especially if you are pushing the limits on the codes. Three or four buildings at the WTC collapsed from fire.

Fact; If the concrete was inadequately cured it would have disintegrated in the collapse impacts.

Fact" Buildings 5 had a major interior collapse from fire and 6 was built differently than the Towers.

Do I have to go on? You obviously didn’t read the ’government’ reports and apparently make up facts to suit your preconceived ideas. If the ’basements and footings were ’exploded’ first’ the towers would not have collapsed downwards from the top sections where the fires were. P.S. the Madrid High rise was a reinforced concrete building not steel.

Retired Fire Chief



> Madrid Fire Re-opens 9/11 Questions: Why did the twin towers fall so fast?
Friday October 21 - 09:38 - Posted by 2c843a0420593dd6...

Liar. Lackey. Loser.

Retired Structural Engineeer



> Madrid Fire Re-opens 9/11 Questions: Why did the twin towers fall so fast?
Monday July 26 - 22:57 - Posted by JOE BLOW - dbddece438f7c686...

I am glad you are retired.

I get pissed when I see people LIKE YOU with constipation of the brain and running off the mouth. You are uneducated and you are repeating something someone else wrote on the web.

If what you are saying is true, and you really are a retired fire chief, thats proof positive of the high amount of incompetence of you people that graduate toward working in the public sector like city jobs or county jobs. You know, the kind of job where there is little or no oversight or need to actually produce anything. Believe me, I know a lots of people that work for the city and local Fire Depts, and I know what goes on.

Have you ever heard of http://firefightersfor911truth.org/
Mr, Retired FIRE CHIEF? Please read that website Mr, Fire Chief! Then come back here and tell us what you think.

Have you ever seen a kerosene heater melt? No way jet fuel can melt steel - NO WAY PAL! NIST AND UL BOTH DID EXTENSIVE TESTS AND NEITHER COULD GET IT TO MELT OR WEAKEN TO THE POINT OF FAILURE.

ANYBODY WHO THINKS THOSE BUILDINGS CAME DOWN THE WAY THE GOVERNMENT SAY THAT THEY DID - IS A BRAINWASHED FOOL.

SINCERLY,
JOE
PS. I AM AMAZED AT THE NUMBER OF "SHEEP" IN THIS COUNTRY - WHEN ALL I SEE AND HEAR IS BULL



> Madrid Fire Re-opens 9/11 Questions: Why did the twin towers fall so fast?
Friday May 20 - 03:09 - Posted by 54507032b614eb7a...

Great post but uh, "truth", it was not designed to withstand the impact of a 747, there were no 747’s when the towers were built, it was built to withstand a 707.

Gary_7vn



> Madrid Fire Re-opens 9/11 Questions: Why did the twin towers fall so fast?
Monday October 16 - 20:53 - Posted by e179fb5f336cc702...

The impacted of the plane is what caused it to go down. People the plane went throught about half of the buiding what do you all think will happen. Please stop and think. You all are nuts.



> Madrid Fire Re-opens 9/11 Questions: Why did the twin towers fall so fast?
Monday October 16 - 21:48 - Posted by 83cbf09e6cef6d48...

NO PLANE WENT THROUGH WTC 7 and it fell just like WTC1 and WTC2. Repeat NO PLANE was needed to bring down 7 only Silverstein attempting to defraud the insurance company of $$$$$$$. You poor deluded BLIND SHEEPLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



> Madrid Fire Re-opens 9/11 Questions: Why did the twin towers fall so fast?
Friday July 21 - 16:50 - Posted by 160d04300e6b308c...

Sorry buddy, but as they were the tallest buildings in the world, I am more than certain that ALL builind codes were followed to the letter.



’.N,BLNMBKLNGCMXVK JXBHHNDFBJUDNJI NBJHIB J BJHBN VNBBHVNFBGUHVBFHHJVBGHJBCJBHCVBDHBVHDGBVFHBYHVBVHDVBHVHXCV
Thursday October 13 - 02:10 - Posted by 74c39855d60bc222...

IF THEY SELL A MOVIE ABOUT THE TWIN TOWERS



> Madrid Fire Re-opens 9/11 Questions: Why did the twin towers fall so fast?
Wednesday May 31 - 19:26 - Posted by 288831ee1f5f07dd...

I am an Ironworker with 30 years of structural steel experience. I have been saying all along that this was controlled demolition.
with the viewing of the pictures you present I am now positive. Thank you for the information. Jack Combs



> Madrid Fire Re-opens 9/11 Questions: Why did the twin towers fall so fast?
Monday December 25 - 00:02 - Posted by 28e2e7f91e630cbf...

I doubt if there traitors, but there are many bad intentioned idiots like you. Have you any structural building notions? Have you taken into account the amount of fuel in a 747? Do you know that steel looses the strenght before it melts? You are an ignorant, malicious individual.



> Madrid Fire Re-opens 9/11 Questions: Why did the twin towers fall so fast?
Monday September 24 - 23:43 - Posted by b03743864c4cbe5c...

So if he is a malicious and ignorant individual what are you? Can you explain why the hell did Tower 7 fall then? When buildings that were closer, on fire and sustained more damage did not fall? Whatever you are the ignorant malicious individual and to the rest of you Bush Cult followers fulk all of ya if you don’t think this was a Bush regime cover frickin dumbies!!



> Madrid Fire Re-opens 9/11 Questions: Why did the twin towers fall so fast?
Friday February 25 - 02:09 - Posted by wtcinsidejob - cb57209d111d90e5...

Correction: The Madrid fire lasted 22 hours! Also, nanothermite, a high-tech explosive that can only be manufactured in a very few high-tech facilities has been proven to exist in all dust samples tested from the WTC on 9/11. Google 7TOCPJ.PDF to read the peer-reviewed scientific paper (suitable as evidence and expert testimony in a court of law), that describes the explosive materials and materials generated from the explosive reactions of these materials, found in all 9/11 dust samples. The EPA and other agencies also found the tiny iron spheres that are a by-product of nanothermite reaction, but they gave no explanation for their existence in the dust. Nanothermite would have been used in shape-controlled cutter charges for slicing through the massive steel support columns of the three WTC buildings. Other explosives would likely have been used in conjunction to cause the complete demolition. It is much to obvious that the mainstream news media, owned by the same big money corporations and financial institutions that profit from war and fund political campaigns for the highest offices, has continued to suppress anything resembling the truth about what happened or who murdered 343 firefighters and a total of nearly 3,000 people on 9/11, not to mention the many thousands who have since suffered or died as a result of breathing the dust from the 9/11 event. Don’t these victims and their families deserve a better answer than the absurd, inconclusive and contradictory reports produced by the 9/11 Commission, NIST and FEMA, none of which explain the actual collapse mechanism for all three buildings in a scientifically acceptable manner? A new, impartial, scientific investigation into all aspects of the events of 9/11 is needed to answer the vast number of questions that have not yet to been answered to the satisfaction of Americans, except, of course, those who have been brainwashed by the propaganda machine we call mainstream news.



> Madrid Fire Re-opens 9/11 Questions: Why did the twin towers fall so fast?
Monday February 14 - 13:49 - Posted by 2959eb8dfd5c6566...

I’ll try to answer. The reason WTC7 went down is because Larry Silverstein order them to be demolished. Anyone can look this up, he ordered to "pull" the buildings. Perhaps instead of paying him DOUBLE because "his" buildings were hit by two planes, maybe we should be trying him for treason. How about an investigation that is not a whitewash, which means we have many traitors among us.

Take a look at this, this is what a building looks like when it it is demolished. If you think it looks like WTC7, well then you can now take off your rosey colored glasses and stop being afraid. They can’t kill all of us, they may try, but we will not go away silently like the germans. This is why Bush is trying to instigate another attack, then he can say, "see, it’s not my fault, they hate us because of our freedom"...while the dumb american sheep get led to slaughter.

A real live demolition, in your face, just like WTC7

http://portland.indymedia.org/media...




> Madrid Fire Re-opens 9/11 Questions: Why did the twin towers fall so fast?
Tuesday February 15 - 00:56 - Posted by 7b94d574049deaf3...

the tower’s did go down, but from the bottom up, something is no right here . they did not go down from the top to bottom .




> Madrid Fire Re-opens 9/11 Questions: Why did the twin towers fall so fast?
Tuesday February 15 - 17:00 - Posted by 2959eb8dfd5c6566...

Did I hear a skeptic talk about thousands of gallons of jet fuel...

Do you need to see the tragedy again? see that big puff of orange, that is your jet fuel. Do you see most of the fuselage coming out the other side and blowing up OUTSIDE of the building. Why did the second tower hit, go down before the first? Surely the raging inferno was hotter in the building hit first no?

How does a building free fall, if the floors are experiencing the popular tin foil hat theory of the "pancake"...c’mon. Boom, boom, boom, floor by floor, with no resistance? perfectly down straight?(which it wasn’t at first-look at the top when it first starts to fall) BOTH BUILDINGS EXACTLY THE SAME? Debris shooting out perpendicular almost 200meters. Where is the fire in the building? Firefighters were still climbing(listen to the audio), didn’t they know about the raging inferno? NO, because there wasn’t one, so they kept climbing.

Take a look inside that hole, do you see an inferno?...and if it went down the elevator shaft, how did people use those to go down?(watch the naudet video) Surely someone on the first floor would of turned on an air conditioner if it was as hot as they say? Everyone looks fine to me, no fires. All of this, in less then a couple of hours? The WTC was built to withstand the impact of the largest plane at that time...I believe it was a 737...but not something slightly larger?

More importantly though, one does not need to look at the twin towers, but WTC7, that is a building similar to both the venezuelan tower(with building codes not updated for decades) and madrid building.

Where’s the raging fire in WTC7? surely you don’t believe it melted just like the others and FELL IN IT’S OWN FOOTPRINT, just like the others. WOW, HOW CONVENIENT FOR THE CLEANUP! POP goes the bush mythology bubble. But even more telling, is silverstein himself, ordering to pull it on national tv. What a dumb phuq. Not to mention the command center they had just built in WTC7(lots of taxpayer money spent-poof, up in smoke).

Same with the towers, allot of paperwork involving corporate crime(enron, worldcomm, etc) went up in the fbi offices in there. If it was retrievable, like the hard drives that were, that show trades being done minutes before the towers went down, we would have some evidence. Where are those hard-drives? The company that had them was bought, and the information recovery was halted...my my, what a wicked web we weave.

Fema doesn’t even want to assert it melted, it’s just a theory for them too.(because they know what a lawsuit and treason is) Oh, now I see why Bush has a hard-on for "frivolous class action lawsuits"...do you? Ellen marianni, sibel edmonds, mary schneider, william rodriguez, and on and on.

Did you watch the video at that link, see the squibs?(smoke tubes shooting out). That looks like a demoltion to me and so does WTC7.

Murder investigation, ask any detective: Motive, Means, Opportunity

Suspect: Bush crime family

Motive: yes. blind nationalism, money, and pre-planned wars(pnac)

Means: Your kidding right? Hell ya.

Opportunity: yes. Bush sits in a chair while patsies do the dirty work.

Suspect: bin laden

Motive: yes. he hates us because our freedom? or because we support imperialism?

Means: NO. 19 hijackers, who never flew 757s, barely had training on cesnas, and intelligence to subvert our billion dollar war machine? No means.

Opportunity:NO. Access to some planes?(most of the hijackers are not even on the flight rosters), dodging ground radar, possible interception from jet fighters, flying off course, and then with no radar(they shut if off remember), they were able to navigate by looking out the window? While bin laden is in a cave somewhere? No opportunity. (oh yeah, don’t forget the dangerous boxcutters they had)

You are either with us or against us. It’s time to draw the line in the sand. You are either part of the coverup or your not. I don’t care either way, I know where my line in the sand is, it’s been crossed and I’m pushing back. I’m a republican, whatever that means anymore, not some wussy liberal, "well, I’m not sure, I mean, it could have, no it can’t be"....face your fears head on, or get behind those who have no fear, be the american you claim to be. Stand up.

The truth was not told to us, we just had the CIA report stating 50+ warnings. sen. Dayton called the norad timeline a lie, because it is, and so on, and so on...there is more evidence against bush then bin laden...and where is bin laden? Making videos I suppose, while we kill in Iraq. I am ashamed and I will never back down untill homeland security makes me dissappear too. I know your listening, I don’t care, because I have nothing to hide...YOU DO.

WTC victims will not die in vain, I don’t care about the victim’s families and "how they feel", we are all victims because of that tragedy. Especially everyone in Iraq. They are dying for a lie.

LIHOP:let it happen on purpose (possible blackmail)
MIHOP: made it happen on purpose

Take your pick, we will never know without an INDEPENDENT investigation. I refuse to live my life in fear and allow a militarized police state to control my destiny. Life, Liberty and The Pursuit of Happiness, THAT is the american way, Not death, fear, and sorrow across the globe.

"First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a communist;

Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a socialist;

Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist;

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— because I was not a Jew;

Then they came for me— and there was no one left to speak out for me."

Martin Niemoeller - concentration camp survivor

Is this where you want to wind up as an "enemy combatant":

Built: JUNE 2000



> Madrid Fire Re-opens 9/11 Questions: Why did the twin towers fall so fast?
Thursday February 17 - 08:30 - Posted by 1eca122de631d7dd...

most of the jet fuel exploded and burnt OUTSIDE both the wtc towers. the fires inside were serious but for most of the hour that they were burning were not burning fiercely - note all the black smoke - low density oxygen-starved fires - not hot enough to "melt steel" and it was possible even for people to have survived in there - photo evidence exists of people standing in the gaping holes - alive.

No doubt about it - this was the beginning of the biggest crime in the history of humanity. and the criminals are scott-free - planning their next big adventure into syria and iran, then possibly korea and god-knows where else. (the lebanese assasination was probably orchestrated by mossad/usa to pin the blame on syria to enable a pretext for sabre-rattling and attack)

hold on to your hats folks - we are now entering a very dark twilight zone.

stand up and be counted those brave enough to face the traitors. they must be defeated.



> Madrid Fire Re-opens 9/11 Questions: Why did the twin towers fall so fast?
Friday September 30 - 13:01 - Posted by b1a6ea40c2925c71...

Come on guys you are raising the prospect of a massive conspiracy theory.

Let me pose one or two questions to those people who would support the conspiracy theory of an inside job.

Apart from a lawyer and a car dealer who would you trust least (a politician?)

So if we assume that politicians cannot be trusted would you, if you were one, rely on other politicians and their aides to keep such a secret as massive as this ?

Your last president made the papers just for not keeping his trousers on with an intern !!

Do you honestly believe any government would attempt to commit such a crime as is suggested in some of these emails on your own people and hope it didn’t leak out?

I know most politicians are pretty dumb and believe their own rhetoric but even your current lot aren’t that daft or arrogant!!

From a terrorist perspective it was a well planned operation by dedicated people who had no fear of dying. The terrorists probably didn’t know if the buildings would fall over or not. In any event they achieved their objective by crashing the planes into the buildings. The buildings collapsing on world TV probably actually harmed their cause with most arab countries many of whom denouncing the attacks as Unislamic.

Engineers had designed and built structures that met operational requirements and safey in terms of ASSESSED RISK. The fuel factor was probably the biggest single factor in addition to an aircraft striking the building that was not considered.

If you want to ask some real searching questions then ask why there are intelligent, motivated and determined people in this world who are willing to attack the US and its people with no thought or real care for themselves or any prospect of survival ?

I do not condone these killers but to beat them you have to understand them !!!

I’m afraid the US has probably used up most of its sympathy and goodwill acquired after 9/11 from many of the countries around the world because your politiicans have failed to understand your enemy.

Your approach post 9/11 has been predictable and therefore the Al Queda lot have been able to continue operating.

The 1st Principle of attack is "Surprise" . Since 9/11 the US have only really shown the second and third principle of "Speed and Aggression"

Remember most politicans in my experience are usually more intent on their own survival to take such risks and get involved with such massive conspiracies !!! (A Brits view point)



> Madrid Fire Re-opens 9/11 Questions: Why did the twin towers fall so fast?
Friday October 21 - 09:55 - Posted by 2c843a0420593dd6...

You say no one in the government has spilled the beans? This is not true! Many have, they just get defamed by the media and the government spinmiesters when they do, or worse they are merely ignored.

kenkirk@marijuanapartyofalberta.com



> Madrid Fire Re-opens 9/11 Questions: Why did the twin towers fall so fast?
Thursday April 13 - 01:04 - Posted by b4cef1b02b035dd1...

WAIT SO YOU SAY THAT THEY DIDNT DO IT BECAUSE SOMEONE WOULD HAVE TOLD ON THEM??!?!?! THAT IS THE LAMEST ARGUMENT I HAVE EVER HEARD!!!! YOU CANT DISCOUNT THE EVIDENCE.....QUIT BEING SO CLOSED-MINDED!!!



> Madrid Fire Re-opens 9/11 Questions: Why did the twin towers fall so fast?
Tuesday February 15 - 19:12 - Posted by 7b94d574049deaf3...

People just love to blame Bush on this great scheme but you all need to realize that he ,his predacessors and those who will come after him are only puppets. There is a huge agenda a bigger picture that isn’t seen It is the conquest of the Illuminati. This is not hollywood story time.
It is operation One World. The Euro Gets stronger against the holy Dollar. Even our money is starting to look ridiculous like monopoly money! If and when things go down in this country we wouldn’t even be good insurgents, We are mostly unarmed, they have taken our weapons away.
All some of us have are a few rounds of ammunition a hand gun. shotgun, deer rifle? against a laser guided Gps controlled sattelite enforced war machine .....Yikes!




> Madrid Fire Re-opens 9/11 Questions: Why did the twin towers fall so fast?
Tuesday February 15 - 23:25 - Posted by 005a96fc21f2ca94...

The bush crime family has included clinton for years. Go read behold a pale horse and the connections daddy bush and clinton have. This is why they own the CPD together, so no one will challenge their dual-purpose agenda.

R: "you ain’t takin’ my guns" D: "guns are bad" R: "sorry, the liberals were just too strong on this one, there was nothing we could do"

Get smart now, lick your wounds, cry on my shoulder, and seek out the true opposition. One way to prove everything I say is true, vote third party and see how hard they try and stop you. See how hard the media smears come out against them. See if you can get a third party into the debates. We tried, they were arrested with court order in hand. How’s your america lookin’ now?

Oh, and here’s kerry calling for 40,000 more troops, so he can fight a more sensitive war. http://www.boston.com/news/local/ma...

whatreallyhappened.com



> Madrid Fire Re-opens 9/11 Questions: Why did the twin towers fall so fast?
Wednesday February 16 - 10:05 - Posted by 27d47acc5be86ca4...

In addition to "The asbestos cleanup would have cost in excess of $1 Billion",
The buildings were suffering from the same problem the Statue of Liberty suffered. It’s called "Galvanic Corrosion" and, as it’s described, it necessitated the replacement of the buildings.......... at a cost of $5.6 Billion.

The properties of these buildings were sold in the quite recent past before 9/11 and they were insured to the hilt in the summer preceeding the disaster.

In the movie JFK, Jim Garrison says "Phisics can explain how an elephant can hang off a cliff with it’s tail tied to a daisy, but use your eyes, people...."

This isn’t rocket science. It’s really "right there in plain site" your mind isn’t deceiving you and you’re NOT a traitor for believing it.




> Madrid Fire Re-opens 9/11 Questions: Why did the twin towers fall so fast?
Wednesday February 16 - 18:52 - Posted by cf7042efac8ed78f...

Madrid Skyscraper Burns For 2 Days - Still Standing!

STOP AND THINK OF THE SPEED OF THE COLLAPE OF THE TWIN TOWERS- this is reason enough to prove without any doubt that explosives, thermite charges, were used to pull the towers down at multiple levels including the basement. Where is the resistance? OF COURSE FIRE DOES NOT MAKE BUILDINGS COLLAPSE in a controlled demolition style IF THEIR 32 STORIES OR 110 STORIES.

Fire guts buildings it doesn’t make them collapse in a controlled demolition style. The twin towers (110 stories) were 411 m tall which is roughly 1348 ft tall and the acceleration of gravity is roughly 9.8 meters per second or 32 ft per second; how could both twin towers fall to the ground in less than 15 secs each? that speed of fall would be roughly around 90 ft per second. And that is conservative- AND i am not counting in resistance of the floor below the floor below the floor below the floor that had to crush as it fell down.

Imagine seeing around where you live 7 floors of a building fall in 1 second because that was roughly the speed of the collapse of twin towers. Is that possible? NO its only possible if the towers were imploded with explosives. Who knows they could have used small pinnapple sized mini nukes liked they used at oklahoma. I wouldn’t put anything by them. SOZAY

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/storie...

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/europ...




> Madrid Fire Re-opens 9/11 Questions: Why did the twin towers fall so fast?
Wednesday February 16 - 19:11 - Posted by aefc1c8c3bbb761e...

re: plane knocked out support- sure that makes sense. So recall how the 2nd plane hit the corner of the building, it knocked out the corner supports right. So the tower should have fallen over, not collapsed straight down as if by controlled demolition.




> Madrid Fire Re-opens 9/11 Questions: Why did the twin towers fall so fast?
Thursday February 17 - 16:56 - Posted by 2959eb8dfd5c6566...

How about the Caracas fire in venezuela? Perhaps someone would like to explain how floors DID collapse...yet the building remained standing? So there is your pancake theory, yet only two floors fall. Take a look:

http://portland.indymedia.org/en/20...




> Madrid Fire Re-opens 9/11 Questions: Why did the twin towers fall so fast?
Thursday March 3 - 21:29 - Posted by 3a9f700758e3dd27...

It’s simple engineering. The building in Caracas was not a "tube" structure like the WTC, so comparing that to the WTC is ignorant at best. NOT ALL HIGH RISES ARE BUILT THE SAME !!! Comparing WTC to other skyscrapers that have experienced fires is not intelligent thinking, unless the other structures were also of the "tube" variety AND were slammed into by a jumbo jet at over 500mph. The WTC were designed to withstand the collision of a large commercial plane, LOST IN THE FOG OR LOW CLOUDS TRYING TO LAND AT EITHER JFK OR LGA. They were NOT designed to withstand the incredible force created by a jumbo jet traveling at over 500mph. There is a HUGE difference between the amount of force generated by an object traveling at 160mph and 500mph. It’s simple physics, which seems to be totally foreign to many of the posters here ! And this point alone seems to be overlooked with all the "fire" talk. It’s almost as if most people here would like to disregard the effects of the collision of the aircraft on both towers, and instead cry conspiracy and point only to the fires, conveniently disregarding the effect that the collision certainly had on the tower’s stability and overall strength. I recommend most of the people here to do some research on the building of the towers, so as to not come off as being so ignorant of the facts and understanding of the architecture that enabled those buildings to stand in the first place.

The only "controlled demolition" at the WTC site was WTC7.



> Madrid Fire Re-opens 9/11 Questions: Why did the twin towers fall so fast?
Tuesday November 15 - 21:07 - Posted by 592bf148981d6ee6...

Whether or not the towers were built differently or were able to withstand a certain type of airliner going at a certain speed, you can still not discount the fact that both towers fell symmetrically at free fall speed. If it was a pancake collapse as the official explanation goes, there would be extra time for the action-reaction of floors slamming into the ones beneath. The towers were not hit evenly, the second tower was even hit at an angle, on the corner. What should have happened if indeed the steel was weakened was the tower would have shifted and buckled at the point of impact and perhaps toppled over.



> Madrid Fire Re-opens 9/11 Questions: Why did the twin towers fall so fast?
Friday February 18 - 07:03 - Posted by 62337a3f229ed6bb...

9/11 was their convenient way to push their very dark agenda. Wars($ for Halibuton), oil, patriot act, keep the people living in fear!
I thought the collapse of those buildings looked too perfect, but then again I always felt that W.’s gang knew it was coming and didn’t stop it.
This Administration is Evil, they are the terrorists and I pray to my God to save their souls, they will need it!




> Madrid Fire Re-opens 9/11 Questions: Why did the twin towers fall so fast?
Friday February 18 - 18:51 - Posted by ef816cb045c12157...

i heard that there were documents about ENRON inside wtc7 that would’ve been damaging to the company. so i guess the collapse wasn’t just so they wouldn’t have to renovate it. obviously, everyone sees that the towers collapsed due to implosions designed for demolition. how else could you explain steel-reinforced concrete turning to dust during the collapse? and how about the molten steel that was found weeks after 9/11 and still boiling hot? there were many firsts with the collapse of the towers. ironic how when someone from UL, a company that tested the steel that went into the towers, questioned the burning jet fuel melting the steel theory and ended up losing his job. so many lies and so much cover-up. in the end, the blind arrogance of the thugs in the white house will bring them down. i can’t wait to see that.



> Madrid Fire Re-opens 9/11 Questions: Why did the twin towers fall so fast?
Friday May 19 - 12:05 - Posted by c3b8f31fe2ee657d...

thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you!!!!!!



> Madrid Fire Re-opens 9/11 Questions: Why did the twin towers fall so fast?
Sunday February 20 - 04:29 - Posted by 8f1978238eae814d...

No one or group of people can or ever will do the wrong the government and the media has.




> Madrid Fire Re-opens 9/11 Questions: Why did the twin towers fall so fast?
Tuesday February 22 - 07:29 - Posted by 320f693686680aca...

Funny. The day I watched the twin towers fall I thought to myself that it resembled the collapse of detinated buildings I had seen cumble in las Vegas. Of coarse those were brought down on purpose. Funny, the other day a girl friend told me about the building in Madrid. I said to her isnt that odd that it has burned for so long yet failed to colapse. It is probably even older than the twin towers.
Sure I’m question alot of things. But alot of the times we need to question, research, seek more answers. Like Martin Luther said When the big dog starts to barking all the little dog start to yapping. Know why you believe what you believe and substanuate it. Surley in this day and age ignorance is no excuse. Truth is there if you really want to find it. Most people would rather believe a lie. Hitler said the bigger the lie the more people would believe it. People we are being dooped. If we continue to believe we live in disneyland we will fall. Remember the trojan horse. While we sleep the enemy attacks and we fall.




> Madrid Fire Re-opens 9/11 Questions: Why did the twin towers fall so fast?
Friday October 21 - 10:38 - Posted by 2c843a0420593dd6...

In this they proceeded on the sound principle that the magnitude of a lie always contains a certain factor of credibility, since the great masses of the people in the very bottom of their hearts tend to be corrupted rather than consciously and purposely evil, and that, therefore, in view of the primitive simplicity of their minds they more easily fall a victim to a big lie than to a little one, since they themselves lie in little things, but would be ashamed of lies that were too big. Such a falsehood will never enter their heads and they will not be able to believe in the possibility of such monstrous effrontery and infamous misrepresentation in others; yes, even when enlightened on the subject, they will long doubt and waver, and continue to accept at least one of these causes as true. Therefore, something of even the most insolent lie will always remain and stick – a fact which all the great lie-virtuosi and lying-clubs in this world know only too well and also make the most treacherous use of.
Adolph Hitler



> Madrid Fire Re-opens 9/11 Questions: Why did the twin towers fall so fast?
Thursday February 24 - 21:46 - Posted by d3ec8d1ba606b1d7...

You’re not a traitor but you are comparing apples to oranges.

There are huge variations in building structures, materials used, fireproofing and on and on and on. One cannot compare WTC to Madrid on the basis you suggest.

One major difference is that the Madrid building was not hit with an airliner full of fuel which had two major effects on WTC. First, the impact weakened key structural parts in the area of impact AND the resultant destruction knocked off quite a bit of the spray-on fireproofing on the steel girders allowing the fire to directly reach the steel girders and soften and weaken them. The NIST study has concluded that both WTC buildings would most likely have remained standing had the fireproofing not been knocked off in key areas.

There will be studies of the Madrid fire to analyse exactly what happened, how the building survived the fire, and they will learn how to improve building construction and fire prevention techniques, as they are now as a result of the WTC experience.

skyking@scientist.com




> Madrid Fire Re-opens 9/11 Questions: Why did the twin towers fall so fast?
Friday February 25 - 05:53 - Posted by 48987f775e05b9b6...

Hey, there, skyking, maybe you could give us all a good laugh with your very calm and careful ’girlie-Bush’ explanation for the molten steel at the bottom of the WTC rubble that stayed molten for a week, and the Americium in the plume from the wreckage. American passenger airliners do not ordinarily emit radioactive materials when they crash, and steel in the basement area was a rather considerable distance away from where you say the "the impact weakened key structural parts in the area of impact." And since you have swallowed the entire government/media explanation(s) for the murder of 3,000 Americans without even so much as a criminal investigation into their deaths, and you so blithely go on running your mouth like an echo chamber for the ’Big Dick’ and ’girlie-Bush’, I’m sure you would jump for joy at the chance to join their really fun group at a place called Hell Ranch. Just get the book and enjoy!



> Madrid Fire Re-opens 9/11 Questions: Why did the twin towers fall so fast?
Wednesday March 16 - 13:12 - Posted by 7ff7728575bd9d4e...

Sure, I am happy to give you a calm explanation. I did it three years ago.

First, the evidence does not support ANY of your nonsensical claims. Second, no one has to accept any governmnet/media explanation. The evidence speaks for iitself.

Since it is evident that you are perfectly willing to accept your "version" of the story, we can safely conclude that you’ll accept anything you want to believe. You are a classic victim of your own prejudice.

Have a nice day.



> Madrid Fire Re-opens 9/11 Questions: Why did the twin towers fall so fast?
Friday March 18 - 02:34 - Posted by a16f183dd816436a...

LOL! Typical ’girlie-Bush’ cop-out. Your answer is a TOTAL non-answer. What a wusssssss! Next time you see film of any tall building being razed by explosives, you should pay a little more attention to the EVIDENCE instead of those polyps up your colon!



> Madrid Fire Re-opens 9/11 Questions: Why did the twin towers fall so fast?
Sunday February 27 - 06:04 - Posted by 2595182f823b3360...

My surprise is that the WTC collapsed roughly parallel with the gravity vector. Given asymmetric damage to the buildings, I would have expected greater tilt from the vertical. We may never know the answer. - Collin Baber depthomelandinsecurity.blogspot.com




> Madrid Fire Re-opens 9/11 Questions: Why did the twin towers fall so fast?
Wednesday March 2 - 10:21 - Posted by cc85e6a7be2bdae0...

A couple of points to note

1) The Pentagon was hit in an uninabited corner

2)The WTC had been evacuated for he weekend and had just a few earlybirds working at the time of 9/11. The death toll in a normal situation could have been 100,000 to 200,00 people

How convenient that the buildings were almost uninhabited by WTC standards.




> Madrid Fire Re-opens 9/11 Questions: Why did the twin towers fall so fast?
Monday March 7 - 02:25 - Posted by e8fbaf4a882ad68d...

The Alfred P. Murrah building was also "empty" by normal standards, most of the federal employees were going to a picnic that day.
Go figure.



half empty buildings and planes
Wednesday June 22 - 05:33 - Posted by 4f42642ea167ce16...

How often do planes fly from two major US cities, at 7-8 am on a beautiful business day with only 25% of the seats filled? Have you been on a plane like that any time in the past 20 years?? There is something seriously amiss in that fact alone. 40-something people on a Boston to LA flight at prime time 7:45 am flight on a Tuesday morning? I don’t think so.



half empty buildings and planes
Wednesday June 4 - 10:54 - Posted by d9b8dbf9c5337e40...

Funny thing.

I have flown on many occasion and even if I were the only passenger aboard a flight I am certain that a few people wielding box cutters (as they say)could have me remain in my seat and allow them to overtake the plane let alone 40 american passengers. I personaly do not know one indavidual who would just sit there and allow this to happen not one. Just a thought I am not a structual engineer or a aerospace load engineer or anything like that but I am a United States citizen and I would be damned if I would go out like that and I don’t think anybody else would either.
Regards Greg



> Madrid Fire Re-opens 9/11 Questions: Why did the twin towers fall so fast?
Friday March 11 - 04:27 - Posted by 63f202a279315f82...

Those that believe the US governments explanation for the 9/11 WTC collapse and the Pentagon attacks are clearly not looking at the facts. They are being spoon-fed from the mainstream media. These are the type of people that allowed Hitler to come to power. Lemmings. People that cannot reason nor think on their own because they’re too comfortable watching their sitcoms and thinking about their own little self contained world. People like this will do anything to resist having their "world" rocked or upset. They do not want to believe our government could have been involved in something so heinous. How naive. Ignorance truly is bliss. People of America are so engrossed in reality TV, they fail to see the real-world reality happening around them. The NWO is coming. The fall of America is most likely one of the last pieces before the new world order. Nice to see most of the world is awake on 9/11. The only ones sleeping are the Americans too stupid to challenge their view of reality. They don’t see the truth because they refuse to look for it. people need to stop for a moment and consider all of the "coincidences" that we’ve been asked to swallow to accept 9/11 as it happened. The list is voluminous and very telling in itself. As for the WTC collapse and the official government explanation, the Madrid fire seems to have cast some doubt now on the official US excuse. But again, only for those who reason on their own and can actually think for themselves. Those that watch the news and never once take the time to check a story out will think what the TV tells them. Here’s a link that brings up some interesting points on 9/11 that may not have been addressed before. The action and reaction time for 110-stories to drop is most interesting.

http://www.newsfocus.org/wtc_fire.htm

Best regards to those who have their eyes and ears open.

"Those that have ears to hear, let them hear."

Tim




> Madrid Fire Re-opens 9/11 Questions: Why did the twin towers fall so fast?
Friday November 18 - 18:51 - Posted by a170e7a11bb757c1...

Here’s something for everyone posting here to think about. It is assumed that to think for yourself and to be free of government control one must automatically disagree with the government or the majority. HOWEVER, to think for yourself, does not necessarily mean to disagree. If you have examined ALL the evidence, I mean, ALL EVIDENCE, not conjecture, not guess, not random theories without proof, the evidence presented by both sides; then you have a right to form opinions. It’s true, ignorance is bliss. However, ignorance can and is present on both sides of this issue. Just a thought.
Jaden, A philosopher of modern times and pyschologist of thought processes



> Madrid Fire Re-opens 9/11 Questions: Why did the twin towers fall so fast?
Friday December 23 - 22:03 - Posted by 4c717f44a3cf809c...

I was watching animal planet the morning of 911 with an oldgirlfriend whom I miss these days. She gave me a ride down the street in her car to my music theory class at VCU. The class was held in the library that morning. Class started at 9 am.... when I got to the library, the class was in a room with a big projector screen....

on radio, while riding in the car, I had heard about a "prop jet" or something crashing into the first tower.... the reports were really vague.... however they were very dramatic for 845 in the morning...

In the class room... this music theory class watched all the events like many places all over the USA and world.... LIVE & IN MY DAMN FACE.... wonder what the statistics are for 911 ratings... my roommate was asleep until 1130 that morning... I woke him up and broke the news to him....

Since the very first day of WTC 7, I was saying it was fake.... I havent been much of a researcher though.. Thank goodness for all of u people out there who are doing the research. I will try to be the one who reads all of this stuff.... maybe when I am 65 I can be a historian or something??

I was a clueless 21 yr old.... Now I am a confused 25 yr old.... I can play trombone and piano.... and ramble.......... Any Dictators need a court jester??

Looking for the Line out of Serfdom

Richmond VA 12,23,05




> Madrid Fire Re-opens 9/11 Questions: Why did the twin towers fall so fast?
Sunday July 1 - 07:17 - Posted by fac17e172a3e934c...

Perhaps if you had gotten a real education in college, like Math and Physics classes instead of "music theory" and other B.S. courses, you’d have the basic skills to see through the absurd lies and pseudoscience that the conspiracy pimps depend upon.

One of the failures of the American educational system is that it has turned into little more than a trade school, trying desperately — and usually failing — to make up for the deficiencies in basic education of our high schools. The schools, with their primary focus on the bottom line and maintaining outrageous educator salaries, concoct degree studies mostly aimed at amusing the students for four years, and creating sillier and sillier "majors."

Forty years ago you couldn’t get a college graduate (except perhaps sociology majors) to buy this conspiracy nonsense. Now .... well, they just don’t have the skills to evaluate anything logically anymore, but they’ve been convinced that they are "educated."



> Madrid Fire Re-opens 9/11 Questions: Why did the twin towers fall so fast?
Sunday July 1 - 13:52 - Posted by 1483cc0c414d667c...

What I can’t believe is that anyone still can buy into the "official" conspiracy theories that spew out of the White House that say that any country that has oil that the U.S. Empire’s PNAC had long ago decided to invade has citizens living in caves that "just happened" to provide the Empire with the perfect opportunity to go seize their oil. LOL. Most anyone with average intelligence can view the implosion of WTC7 and KNOW it was imploded, it really doesn’t even take any advanced schooling, a second grader could realize this fact. Why don’t we just stop lying and admit the Empire "needs" the OIl, ’needs’ to prop up the dollar, ’needs’ to carry out Israel’s bidding, and ’needs’ to make Cheney and his military industrial pals very rich, and allowed (at the least) someone to provide the perefect pretext to carry out PNAC’s Agenda. The only real ’conspiracy theory’ is blaming the Arab victims for what the Empire has decided to do to them and their countries.



> Madrid Fire Re-opens 9/11 Questions: Why did the twin towers fall so fast?
Saturday December 24 - 10:34 - Posted by 9ac7cddbd15599dd...

So for all the believers of the "official" goverment (conspiracy) theory, how do you explain the plane that struck a building (that did not collapse) in Iran a few weeks ago? Now if your answer is the building was not tall enough (for the "weight argument") I say don’t forget that the Pentagon wall collapsed after being hit by a "plane". If you say that Iranian building materials are stronger than US materials, then I don’t know what to say, you must be right :)




> Madrid Fire Re-opens 9/11 Questions: Why did the twin towers fall so fast?
Wednesday January 4 - 16:22 - Posted by 532f4738926b1b07...

There are so many questions that should be answered. Not only do we wonder why the twin towers fell so fast, but who wanted them down and why? Was it all just a big sceme that Bush put up just to be greedy. Was the war we have now hoped for by this? So many questions needing to be answered, but who is going to answer them? Soon, they will be answered. It isn’t long until someone says the wrong thing that went to far to take back. Bush and many government officials have already come close to it. I just want to see how long they can keep it going. We have as much proof as we can get, but we still need something harder to bring it out.




> Madrid Fire Re-opens 9/11 Questions: Why did the twin towers fall so fast?
Monday March 20 - 23:12 - Posted by b4c063a67f640c77...

You guys are really sick minded! Many people from many different countries lost their lives during this horrific attack and all you lot care about was WHY IT FELL SO FAST! you are really pathetic people with no hearts what so ever. inside job my arse!



> Madrid Fire Re-opens 9/11 Questions: Why did the twin towers fall so fast?
Tuesday March 21 - 03:35 - Posted by 6290d6069c3b3446...

Dame Edna Speaks to Ohio

http://freewayblogger.blogspot.com/...

Nick Nack Patty Whacked

http://thewebfairy.com/911/nicknack




> Madrid Fire Re-opens 9/11 Questions: Why did the twin towers fall so fast?
Sunday April 16 - 23:29 - Posted by 626c3bd07690ed40...

It doesn’t make sense whatsoever that those buildings fell as a result of a plane crash alone . Even if the top was weak the top would have fell , broken away being severed from the rest of the structure. Technology, common sense, and the truth of who benefits from this experience proves that we are at the hands of Benedict Arnolds and they run our country. The towers calapsed at the base beams requiring a mixture of certain chemicals contrary to those that make airplanes run. This act paved the way to the great vasts of oil deceiving Americans into hating enemies that dont really exist. Its funny how gas prices are $3 dollars a gallon . We are being sold out and milked for what were worth. Patriot acts are signed and agendas are being met at the cost of our own flesh and blood . Prodicle504@aol.com




> Madrid Fire Re-opens 9/11 Questions: Why did the twin towers fall so fast?
Thursday June 8 - 23:25 - Posted by 626c3bd07690ed40...

the twin towers were very heavy but very weak metal so when it was on fire the metal melt and it cause it callapse and also because when the plane hit :’( it had an impact




> Madrid Fire Re-opens 9/11 Questions: Why did the twin towers fall so fast?
Sunday December 16 - 19:56 - Posted by eba9efd30d82915c...

Maybe the girders were made of aluminum...?



> Madrid Fire Re-opens 9/11 Questions: Why did the twin towers fall so fast?
Saturday July 1 - 23:48 - Posted by abeab5fb7779a753...

The American people are just plain imoral and thats the whole problem. They have allowed their governmant to kill there fellow citizens in New York and they don’t care. In fact no one is safe from these murders in the whole United States. The Oklahoma city bombing proved they did it once and they then did it aagain. They got away with killing little children in the Murra building and no one stoped them. Hoppy Heitlberg was intimidated by his owen goverment and he was the chairman of the grand jury on the case.




> Madrid Fire Re-opens 9/11 Questions: Why did the twin towers fall so fast?
Saturday August 5 - 03:40 - Posted by 9b449dc72d8b96ad...

For those of you who are involved in the market and know something about Options trading explain to me why the open put interest on United Airlines and American where 10X the normal volume the day before 9-11? As a retired Los Angeles Ironworker who has worked on many hi-rises I will never believe that those planes caused the fall of these bldgs. I was home from work that day watching the events and when they fell i told my wife that is impossible. After reading about the construction of the bldgs i questioned myself, did the fireproofing do it’s job, how about the firesprinkler system. Why didn’t Norad get fighters into the air sooner? The fact remains those boxed columns should have withstood the impact of a 737 with ease, the fire wasn’t hot enough, why was there no large chunks of concrete, why was the fire still burning up to 4 days during demo clean up. Why did Condi Rice lie when she said " Who would expect a plane to fly into the bldgs" When on 9-11 there were 5 Norad War Games going on and one scenario was 3 hi-jacked planes hitting a major structure? As a patriot we have a duty as well as a responsiblity to question the unexplained, if not we’re nothing other than a loyalist to a dictator



> Madrid Fire Re-opens 9/11 Questions: Why did the twin towers fall so fast?
Thursday August 10 - 05:45 - Posted by aa6fc66e9d34fca0...

Some of these threads are over a year old, dont know if anyone still respondes to them or not, but I guess I could put my 2 cents worth in. I am not an Iron Worker, and I am not a Physics major, but I am not a complete idiot either. I am a truck driver, and have been for a little over 10 years. I think I believed what I heard through the Media, until I saw a DVD from Power Hour "In Plane Sight". Since then just seeing what has unraveled in our world today, with Iraq and here rescently the Middle East, Isreal and Lebanon. It just keeps getting deeper, you would think the American people would wake up, of course, I’m thinking most people are like me. I am but a small voice in a crowd of 300 million give or take a few. Its kinda like driving a truck, where is Jimmy Hoffa when you need him most. Since I had started driving a truck over the road, all the truck drivers complain about being under paid, the people you have to put up with at the docks, and the restriction being put on the American Truck Drivers. Everyone complains, but NO ONE puts forth the effort to change things. We know there is a problem with this administration, but we seem to sit back to see what happens next. Seems strange to me, we try to Impeach a president for lying about cheating on his wife to the public masses (Which it is no-ones business), but we don’t Impeach a president that lies about WMD’s and sends us off to a War that we have No earthly idea how to get out of and still save face. Yes, the Traitor is in the White House, although I think this week he is in Crawford Texas. How do you go about removing this administration from office? I mean, honestly, I believe Bush is just a puppet and Chaney is thee Puppet Master. How can the Vice President shoot someone under the influence of alcohol and walk away scot free. (And I Hardly believe he only had one beer, please Mr Chaney, don’t insult our intelligence!) Please Tell me? How do "We The People" remove this administration from office, before they do any more harm to the people of this great nation? Like I said before, I don’t know if anyone still reads these threads, but I will book mark this page, and forward this link to everyone I know. Thanks for letting me add own personal thoughts here, and pleaase, if anyone can inlighten me on how "We The People" remove an administration from office, please do so...

Daniel Simons



> Madrid Fire Re-opens 9/11 Questions: Why did the twin towers fall so fast?
Monday August 21 - 21:18 - Posted by df78dcd488d5ab64...

To Daniel, one thing I’m doing right now is posting flyers (that I have composed my self) around my city,explaining that 911 is an inside job,and for 9/11/ I plan on doing some "highway blogging"( banners hung over freeway overpasses that will say 911 inside job-WTC Controlled Demolition.I am a mother of a teen ager,I can’t leave this country because there is no way my daughter would leave her friends behind .I have to stay and fight. Have you seen the movies Loose Change 2E,911 Revisted or Press For Truth? Also have you checked out the site 911 Blogger? Peace to you-Layla



> Madrid Fire Re-opens 9/11 Questions: Why did the twin towers fall so fast?
Wednesday March 7 - 06:49 - Posted by 9eb479f099d2797d...

"The American people are just plain imoral and thats the whole problem. They have allowed their governmant to kill there fellow citizens in New York and they don’t care. In fact no one is safe from these murders in the whole United States. The Oklahoma city bombing proved they did it once and they then did it aagain. They got away with killing little children in the Murra building and no one stoped them. Hoppy Heitlberg was intimidated by his owen goverment and he was the chairman of the grand jury on the case"

I have to agree with what you are saying. Something I have been wondering is why no has mentioned how the wtc was targeted by a bomb earlier...in the parking garage not sure what year it was. I seem to remember it was the same a van full of some type of explosive....I believe they were trying to make the base structure week so the building would fall. I remember it didnt work. Soooo...I am not saying our government did it or didnt have a hand in it or the owners of the building had a hand in it....but I do believe...the building was planted with explosives inside.
The way that building came down it was too perfect. In my opinion and I really dont know how fast the plane was going...but I think because it was going at a high rate of speed that would be more beneficial of less shock....as it entered the building...sorta like pulling the table cloth out from under the dishes..trick...if the plane went slower i think it would have more impact damage at a lesser speed.
Maybe the terrorists knew from the first attempt...at trying to bring the towers down that they needed to plant bombs on every floor? lol but why be so neat..bombs planted at the base and few of the floors....would have taken the building down more eratic....and causing more damage
in the wtc area...killing more americans in the vicinity...I have read in a few posts saying that the bin laden crew are to dumb....well who really knows who is smart and dumb...bottom line here is
it was a controlled blast...to perfect in the way the buildings collapsed....maybe everyone in politics is involved...or maybe every terrorist group was involved...we all know most of those people hate us for being free...most of them come to this country and suck what they can from us and send the money technology home to their countrys....will we ever really know?, probably not. The only thing I can say is we as americans need to stick together..dont believe everything
you hear in the news and on the television or radio...we also need not to point the finger at the president of the usa...because its easy to do...like another poster stated there are higher powers



> Madrid Fire Re-opens 9/11 Questions: Why did the twin towers fall so fast?
Sunday July 1 - 07:02 - Posted by fac17e172a3e934c...

Lower speed at impact would create more damage?

One of the problems with the conspiracy crowd is that they never took Physics, and think reading a few peculiar websites will make up for having taken liberal arts courses instead of getting an actual education.

The energy transmitted on impact increases with the SQUARE of the speed, period. So even going just a bit faster creates a surprisingly larger hit.

Spending some time on a Fire Engineering or Structural Engineering site wouldn’t do any harm, either. It might clear up all that adolescent confusion between the melting point of steel and the far lower temperature at which it loses ALL of its structural strength.



> Madrid Fire Re-opens 9/11 Questions: Why did the twin towers fall so fast?
Monday September 11 - 14:43 - Posted by 06c268baa85fc010...

why did we have to die




Madrid Fire Re-opens 9/11 Questions: Why did the twin towers fall so fast?
Tuesday March 13 - 14:35 - Posted by e5aea21ef5dcfb10...

A third of the madrid did collapse and the constuction was not the same as wtc-1/2.
also the madrid building had not been half blown to cr*p by an air craft crashing into it.




Madrid Fire Re-opens 9/11 Questions: Why did the twin towers fall so fast?
Monday March 19 - 01:55 - Posted by fc6516684f831409...

Hello -

Why are you trying so hard to find reasons to accept the story that we have been fed?

This is not a Republican or Democratic question.

You need to get above policy and political persuasion, if you’re going to find the Truth to the story.

In fact, The Trade Towers were built to withstand a 707, which is pretty much the same in its destructive capability.

They accounted for all that would happen in the construction of the Towers, if hit by a jet.

So, your assessment is faulty.

In fact, molten metal was found at the very base of the Towers, after the event.

This can only be one thing - thermite.

It would have to have been planted prior to 911.

Also, the weekend before the event, there was a major ’power-down’ conducted in the Towers, where some men came in and did recabling in the buildings...for it to happen all weekend was indeed something out of the ordinary.

Layna Jan Wilson,
Vancouver, Canada.



Madrid Fire Re-opens 9/11 Questions: Why did the twin towers fall so fast?
Monday March 19 - 01:28 - Posted by fc6516684f831409...

Dear Reader -

You are correct.

There are many other discrepancies, as per the events of 911, that have not been acknowledged by the Media, because, they are a part of this big NWO coverup.

I didn’t used to think this way, but I am wiser now.

After much study, I realize that it was a collaborative effort, by forces that hate America and want to bring in Global Dominion.

Where are the passengers to the flights that were diverted?
Many say they saw an unmarked plane, with only a round insignia and without windows, hit one of the Towers that day. That it wasn’t an American Airlines jet.

I do not believe the story of Barbara Olson, either; since you would not be able to use a phone, with the G-forces in operation that day, when the jet was careening over the city and into the Tower.

I think that the passengers were diverted to the local military base, and are being held against their will, at that location, most probably, underground.

If they haven’t already been executed, that is.

Wake up, we are being duped.

LaYna Jan Wilson,
Vancouver, Canada.




Madrid Fire Re-opens 9/11 Questions: Why did the twin towers fall so fast?
Saturday April 14 - 01:55 - Posted by c1a8a77b3d4eb67d...

Did anyone see the interview of the lead structural engineer who designed the WTCs? It was very interesting. Oh, I almost forgot, the WTCs collapsed in a manner consistent with how the WTCs were designed. Each floor truss was held in place by two 5/8-inch diameter bolts at each end and the fire proofing material was blown off the trusses by the airplane’s impact. Trusses sagged under the heat and the bolted connections failed. I know this isn’t as juicy as a controlled demolition but truth is often stranger than fiction especially when non-engineers try to explain a a structural failure. Get a life.



Madrid Fire Re-opens 9/11 Questions: Why did the twin towers fall so fast?
Sunday June 3 - 14:20 - Posted by 6fc0c735bf2865b0...

Interestingly, the actual architectural and construction drawings of the Twin Towers were officially impounded very early in the event. One can wonder why that was thought necessary. What were Government authorities afraid of? The truth? Well that was rectified last year when a ’whistle blower’ released several hundred such documents. These are available at this site. Understand the true nature of the constructions. http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/evi...

Click on everything hi-lighted, for information, comparing the official line and the actual facts of the construction. A full list of all documents is there to be found and enlarged for your convenience. I am pleased to be able to pass this information on to those who wish to become more informed about those buildings. In the official line, much important construction detail was glossed over as if it didn’t exist. All part of the big lie. Endeavoring to suggest that the Towers were much weaker than they in fact were. This, from a so called panel of experts, after such a long time in compiling.

I have only just found Bela Ciao and am pleased to see that it has remained available even after a couple of years in abeyance.

Truth will out!



Madrid Fire Re-opens 9/11 Questions: Why did the twin towers fall so fast?
Friday June 8 - 19:56 - Posted by c3fd8c0de01a4d37...

I disagree, the passengers are definitely being held on a spacechip from the planet Zorg stationed in lunar orbit.



Madrid Fire Re-opens 9/11 Questions: Why did the twin towers fall so fast?
Friday June 8 - 19:54 - Posted by c3fd8c0de01a4d37...

Maybe the fact that they were slammed into by a 757 and 767 made a difference, DUH. This has also never happened to a skyscraper.




Madrid Fire Re-opens 9/11 Questions: Why did the twin towers fall so fast?
Monday July 9 - 20:31 - Posted by 85d8cd42666cfbe6...

that old lame excuse is as laughable and tiresome as always.ever see the video MODERN MARVELS? is was a documentary about the towers that was made BEFORE 9-11 with two of the original enginners on there saying the towers were built better than most skyscrapers so much so that they designed it so that it could take hits from MULTIPLE Boeing 707’s=the largest aircraft in the country at the time and STILL stand enough with that laughable excuse that they were slammed into by a 757 and 767 excuses.they hold no water.People stop being afraind of the truth that the government was behind the whole thing,anybody who defends the official version still obviously is.



Madrid Fire Re-opens 9/11 Questions: Why did the twin towers fall so fast?
Friday February 25 - 02:23 - Posted by wtcinsidejob - cb57209d111d90e5...

Google "7TOCPJ.PDF" for proof explosives were used.




Madrid Fire Re-opens 9/11 Questions: Why did the twin towers fall so fast?
Friday February 25 - 14:41 - Posted by 1600210065ccd8ef...




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