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Veteran in Central Command Bunker on 9/11 Speaks Out

Tuesday 26 September 2006

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Veteran in Central Comman Bunker on 9/11 Speaks Out -

Interview with former Sgt. Lauro Chavez

Cathy Garger

As an Auxiliary Member of Veterans for 9/11 Truth I came upon a post on the V911T Yahoo group with regard to veteran Sgt Lauro Chavez. Soon after, a copy of a letter reportedly written by Lauro Chavez was posted on the group’s website: .

Before continuing, it might be helpful to read the details contained in that letter (link above). Below is the transcript of an interview with a man who identified himself as Lauro Chavez. Chavez claims he was in the bunker of the US Air Force Central Command, Mac Dill AFB, Florida, on the morning of September 11, 2001. Lauro Chavez also claims to have served personally under General Tommy Franks.

Intrigued by this veteran’s remarks regarding 9/11, I interviewed Lauro Chavez by phone on September 24. After the interview I attempted to confirm his identity by calling the Public Affairs office of Mac Dill AFB. I was told that although I had the right to know whether or not a certain employee had worked at that base, the computer was unable to bring up former employees’ information. The Mac Dill Public Affairs representative conveyed that although she had worked there during September, 2001, she could not recall hearing of anyone by the name of Lauro Chavez. I asked if this was possible given the number of individuals who serve at the base and she agreed.

On the Info Wars website, however, confirmation of Sgt. Chavez’s military record is posted. With thanks to Alex Jones, this alleged verification of Sgt. Chavez’s military record document appears on the Info Wars website:

I use the words “reported” and “alleged” as I have no way of knowing if the following information is true. I can state only that the following is a telephone conversation that took place between myself and a gentleman claiming to be Lauro Chavez. While I did my best to write down every word exactly as heard, please know that some repetitive words ( “like” and “ya know”) have been removed.

There are many theories regarding what happened on 9/11. Mounting physical and scientific evidence increasingly suggest, however, that far too many disturbing anomalies and un-answered questions exist concerning the “official story” told by those in government and by those who served on the 9/11 Commission. My purpose is to provide only the transcription of the interview with a man identifying himself as Lauro Chavez, who claims to have been within the US Air Force Central Command bunker the morning of September 11, 2001.

You, the reader, are invited to draw your own conclusions about both this interview and the story that has been told by the US federal government and the 9/11 Commission.

Cathy Garger
September 26, 2006


Questions marked by Q, asked by Cathy Garger

Q - What made you want to tell the story now?

Good question. Honestly when 9/11 happened and ah, ya know, we’re standing down there in the middle of this exercise and I was... it kind of scared me, I mean, if you really want to know the honest truth. It was like really troublesome you know, and then I really couldn’t... I didn’t have time to really run through things in my head because, ya know, very soon after I was deployed to Afghanistan and I really ya know, in that situation, I didn’t really think about anything other than, ya know, making sure I came back in one piece. And that was always kind of my philosophy... it’s always been in there, back of my mind. And then when I came back I started to ya know, ask some questions like well like, what’s this deal with the NORAD thing, ya know? How come one of the most sophisticated defense forces in the world could be out-thought and out-gamed by these tattered little guys (laughter) ya know? And I really just never got any questions, never got my questions answered

And I worked right for General Franks, I don’t know if you’re familiar with who Tommy Franks was? He was - I was the only individual allowed to work on his personal communications at his home and in his plane and I’d ask, General Franks, a few times, ya know, when I was over his house, and um, like, ya know: “Sir, what a ya think about all this”? And he’s well, he’s like, ya know, “Just” ... He’s like, ya know, “There are some things that need... that just happen and they need to happen and we don’t know why they happen but...” He gave this really, like, ominous answer and I’m like, Whoa man! Ya know, I wasn’t expecting that.

So I just , I don’t know... it just, it took - I joined the Army because I wanted to be a part of something bigger than me. I think it really it really took it away when I found out that maybe not all this was as it seems and what am I... what am I putting my life on the line for here - my countrymen... or somebody’s money? Ya know, it just, ya know, if my heart’s - not in that then, there’s nothing that - I couldn’t be... I couldn’t be a comrade to these people. I didn’t think along these lines - I wanted to shake them all awake and say, “Hey! What are we doing here, ya know?”

Q - How soon after 9/11 did you go to Afghanistan?

It was about 2 ½ weeks after 9/11 that it happened, the 26th, a couple of weeks, few weeks.

Q - Before that, you hadn’t added it all up exactly?

My really good friend that was a Colonel that I talk about that used to run the Army Corp of Engineers ..... We were down there in the bunker and we were, like, watching it, and we he was making these funny comments But at the time I was, I think I was, ya know, it was just shock and awe just like everybody else. Everybody was just so like, “Oh my god I can’t I can’t believe this is happening!” and nobody could really rationalize what any of these details were back then so it was more like, he was saying these things to me and I’m like, I can’t believe that these planes just blew these buildings, up are you kidding me? I’m really, like, so dead.

What made me want to tell the story? At first I was just wanted to be quiet because I knew something that I probably shouldn’t know and thought, “Man! What would happen if this got out?!” And then, I started, like, run into Alex Jones and get on the Internet. Then I’ve got, like, eight friends at work and we’d sit around and we were like conspiracy theorists because we don’t believe in the mainstream media, and like, I can’t believe this many people that actually think that something was wrong! I figured that everybody else had, like, no idea. So when I started to learn that people are starting to, like, want questions answered and they’re not getting answers and there’s specific reasons they’re not getting answers... and I thought, “Well like maybe its’ time for me to go ahead and tell my story” and, like, then I kind of know something I shouldn’t know....

Q - When you were watching the drills. You said, “Then the plane hit the first tower”. How did you know the plane hit the first tower?

They went right to CNN. Okay, so we have, in the bunker, okay, I also... It’s the funny thing, is because, the op order I saw for the exercise, now we were supporting Vigilant Guardian, which was the exercise that was going on and we weren’t directly involved, but we, from a support standpoint, you know, any deployments to the Middle East or anything that goes on in the Middle East goes through Central Command because that’s where there area of operation lies, the entire Middle East.

So we’re in the skip and you had to have a top secret, you had to have a green badge to get in there, and ya know, I worked there in the network shop, so I was always in and out of there, and so I was in there, like, working in there and I was in there talking with my girlfriend, and I wasn’t, I keep saying, I am not going to say his but I go in there and well, I go visit with him and he’s just a really interesting guy and there’s a lot of interesting people like, ya know, I got to meet lots of people at that command that were just fascinating... war heroes... so, ya know, the psychological operations guys, we call them psy ops, the ones who figure out all the leaflets, and ya know, how to broadcast music in Iraq to like, get the guys to come out and surrender. And they’re really good at what they do. Well, that’s where I saw the op orders for the exercise that showed the scenarios for the planes crashing into our building which didn’t explain to me, like why they were like, ramping up, ya know? They put big barricades around our building and like, there were sandbag machine gun posts, and there were guys upstairs with rockets. It was very interesting. I was like, Wow, ya know? Especially the classifications exercise is what really like spurred me, like, my questions, like, Why they classify a coded operation above the secret level? I mean yeah, you know, you don’t want everybody to know what we’re doing, but this was like, really, really hush-hush, like this exercise and like, nobody knew, like, and everybody’s asking me, like, Why do we have machine guns on the roof today? I’m like, I don’t know.

But, so, ya know, in the bunker, they’ve got, like, a bunch of, different, ya know, they monitor all kinds of stuff, and they’ve got the guys who monitor live satellite feed over to the Middle East, I mean, you can like, literally watch trucks and people walking around. I mean, like, people have no idea the sophistication of the equipment that we have. I mean they really don’t know. I’m like, Wow! That’s a truck! Holy cow, there’s like, two guys getting out of it! I mean, ya know, this is like, ya know, this is from like thousands of miles away, in Florida, ya know, we’re watching this! So anyways, the screen, the screen is like the part of the North American air space field, ya know, we put like, so we know, like, where all the F16s are, like that particular specific command to joint base, controlled by the Air Force, well the Air Force runs the base, Mac Dill Air Force base, we’ve got Air Force guys there. And then we’ve also got Army Navy and Marines and so the Air Force individuals, ya know, they’re air traffic controllers, they’re like the, the big air traffic controller guys, and they monitor, ya know, all the aero-space exercises that are going on here in the United States. And especially when they’ve got F16s or something out flying, ya know, they want to make sure that they know where they’re at, they’ve got ‘em on the radar, it’s not just us monitoring them, there’s other places like CUKA(?) they’re keeping track of these so, in case we lose one, we’ve got, like confirmations from, like, four different bases that know, “Hey, we actually lost a plane what happened?” Did they have to eject, is the guy alive? So they’ve got this, this big screen, and they show all this plane traffic and they start putting these fake blips on. And we’ve done this tons of times before, ya know, in the Army when you get, like, when you get like a screen and you like assimilate, like, well, this is where the enemies are right here, these red dots simulate the enemies on our front, and these are just like... We’re out on the back yard of our base and playing games, basically, but we, we visualize that there’s a real enemy and they put it on the screen and they show, like , okay, we kill these, these tanks over here, so, ya know, they do these exercises over and over again, these battle tactics and stuff.

So they start putting these blips on the grid showing these enemy aircraft, and then some of them were supposed to be hijacked planes and, you know, that was just very interesting to me and that was one of the things I caught, I mean like well, it would be really easy to put all these fake blips on the screen, because I think it’s Andrews Air Force base reciprocates that grid so the air traffic controllers at, like, ya know, for Washington so that, and New York, so that they know, like what planes commercial inbound and outbound and these are like exercise planes, ya know. They were all aware that we were like doing an exercise, the Air Force was doing a big exercise, or whatever, ya know, which is why these air traffic controllers were like, Is this real world or exercise, I mean, he asked that, ya know, because they, we, have to let them know if we’re gonna fly planes, ya know ,within the city limits or whatever.

So they don’t see these other planes and start calling people and say “Hey, ya know, there’s mysterious planes flyin’ around, You guys doing an exercise?” And ya know, it’s regulation that we let them know if a person’s doing an exercise, especially flying planes over airports and over major cities and stuff like that.

So it was just very interesting to see all these fake blips on the grid and then you crash planes and that way nobody knows, well ,which ones are real and which ones are fake, ya know? Like, cos they’re just on there, and we’ve got over-ride codes and we just put blips on the screen and they’re, we’re pretending that they’re either hijacked planes or they’re Russian MGs, ya know, and they’re headed for Denver and, ya know, whatever, whatever scenario they choose and it was just very ... At that point, it started making sense to me and I thought about that and it was like Wow. That’s a pretty good... that’s a pretty good setup for doing something, is the fact that you hide it in an exercise, where everybody thinks like, ya know, everybody’s like, ya know, “Calm down, NORAD’s, everybody’s like, we’re just doing this big exercise”.... And then, ya know, all of a sudden... planes crash.

Q - Some people are saying no planes hit the towers at all, so what makes you know? Why are you convinced that it did?

I’m not sure that it did. I mean, honestly, I saw the same thing everybody else saw. As soon as it happens, they flip all the big screens to CNN and FOX and ya know, we’re all watching it. At first, everybody’s starts getting this hustle and bustle, and everybody in the Command’s like, ya know, I’m like, in the bunker and I’m like, “What’s goin’ on?” Everybody’s gotten busy all of a sudden, ya know, and it looked like, it looked like NASA guys, ya know, like when Apollo 13 was going to crash? And people start going nuts and they and they flip the screen on, so somebody got a call and was like, “Holy shit, we just got attacked”! And so, then they, they put this on the screen and we’re, like, watching the re-play of the plane, ya know, and I didn’t see the first plane hit the tower.

I saw the second plane hit the tower. I watched it fly into it, but I mean, they they’ve got some pretty.... I’ve heard the theory that it was blue screen technology, and it holographic, and ya know, and I know that the military’s been working on holographic research for a long time. I saw an exercise where they wanted to, like, holographic a giant façade of Allah over Iraq to get the people of Iraq to surrender (laughter).

Q- When a plane crashes you can identify that plane always, even when it crashes and is on fire. And they did not, in any of the four crash sites, found any information that pinpoints the wreckage with any of the particular flights - not 175, 11, 93, or 77. Have you heard of anything?

No, but I know that, I mean ,also when I got out of the military I live in Cincinnati but I worked up in Dayton for Air Force research laboratories and they do all the, they do all the research on the development for space common Air Force, so I’ve seen, I’ve seen, like, all their stealth - the new stealth, that the public doesn’t even know about yet, that they’ve got, ya know. Like, everybody’s heard of UCAV, ya know, the Unmanned Aerial Vehicle, ya know, that flies around. You can drop bombs now, they’ve got a stealth version of that, it looks like a little Dorito, it’s like about the same size as a UCAV it’s got about a 15 foot wing span but it’s all black, it’s like, it’s completely stealth.

And it’s like, got an internal bay for like rockets or bombs or.... I mean it’s, it’s amazing. And I’ve actually seen the working prototype, like, in a lab and they turn the jet boosters on and they, like, play with it, ya know, with the controller and stuff. And honestly, my opinion is that they... Those were drone planes that were flown into the buildings because, that way they could have had internal explosives or something that ignited, that way, there was no wreckage left over, ya know? They were made out of a certain material that normal planes are not made out of .

But ya know, just like the place in Pennsylvania, I mean, I’ve seen pictures and ya know, everybody’s watched Loose Change and I mean, there’s no wreckage, ya know? It’s very bizarre. What? I don’t know. Nobody knows what that is and I mean, that’s the thing. Every other plane crash in history there’s been plane crashes unless they went in the ocean... and sometimes even then, we can find pieces.

I mean, there’s something else going, there’s something going on. I mean, the whole point of it was to shock and awe, I mean it was, like, the catalyst, required to uh, “the new Pearl Harbor”, ya know? It’s what they said in Operation Northwoods, ya know? And I’ve read that document pretty, pretty thoroughly a few times and ... this is very possible.. And then what really makes me mad is that, ya know, well, it don’t guess it makes me mad, but I find it humorous kind of, actually, that Bush gets on, gets on TV and is like, “We had no idea that... Who would have thought that they would’ve used planes?” And I’m like, “You jackass! I’ve been training for this stuff forever! I mean, I know!” He’s the puppet. Really. I think it’s pretty much unanimous that Bush is not running this country. I mean somebody else has to be running it. I mean he does not have the... I mean, he can’t even hold the book the right way when he’s reading to the kids. So... He’s definitely not very intelligent.

Q - Now that you know what you know and you were sent to Afghanistan... Did you still think in your mind that you were trying to get the Taliban, Al Qaeda, or Bin Laden?

That’s the thing. I flew into Kabul Airport, like, I mean literally when our C5 came in, we were escorted by jet. We were escorted by F15s and we were getting shot at, like, they were literally, like, pop-shotting up at the planes as we were trying to land because the Special Forces and the Air force para-rescue guys had just, had just cleared it, like, literally like, we were there like, I was there, like, five hours after like, the fire fight where they actually got everybody, like all the Taliban moved back out of the airport so that we could land planes, ya know. So, like, I’m on a, we’re on a big C5 and we’ve got all our vehicles underneath us, and I’m mean, I’m just like, “Oh God, ya know, this thing could fall out of the sky, because it doesn’t ...” I don’t know if you’ve ever seen a C-5 fly, but it looks like it’s not even moving, it’s so big. So it’s really easy to like shoot at, like a machine gun, ya know, and ya know, like, there were bullet holes on the sides of the plane. And of course they didn’t come all the way through, but and we’re all looking at them later and I’m like, “Holy cow, we’re getting shot at!”

But, yeah, I thought we were going to Afghanistan to hunt down Bin Laden. I’m helping in the search to hunt down Bin Laden. No. Not the case. Actually, I actually was providing communications for special ops guys and then I was pulling roving guard, guarding the pipeline.

Q - Guarding the pipeline for oil for United States... corporate, right?

That’s right. A lot of people don’t know about the pipeline. A lot of people, when I talk about that are like, “What are you talking about?” And I’m like, “Dude, there’s a huge... like, the Alaskan pipeline, that comes all the way through Afghanistan, like down in the Gulf, it comes through Pakistan...” I don’t know where all it goes, honestly I haven’t really found a whole lot on it, but... I was, I had to pull shifts, like every two or three days they’d..... I’ve have to pull a six hour rotation, on top of a humvica(?) driving around pieces, these sections of this pipeline to make sure that, ya know, like, guys weren’t going to come blow it up. And ya know, then, that’s when I started thinking, I’m like, I’m like, well, “What am I here for man? I’m not protecting people, I’m protecting oil!” Ya know, who wants to get shot for that? They give you guys awards, ya know, and I’m just like, “For what? Ya know, what did we do? We protected someone’s money. Ya know, somebody’s investment.”

Q - So when you were over there for eight months, right? So did you, during that eight months, figure out 9/11 and that Bin Laden was a fraud and all that? Or did it take you longer than that?

No it took me longer than that. I think, I think, like, most Americans don’t want to believe that. I didn’t want to believe it. Especially since I was part of the system, ya know, at the time? So I really was, ya know, it took at least... When I came back and I moved up here to Ohio and then after I started, like, running it through in my mind, I’m just like, just trying to replay stuff, ya know, it just never really.. None of it really made sense. And that’s when I started doing research on the Internet and I found, ya know, Alex Jones, and they have all this...Then, like, I found, there’s like so many people, that are just like ... the thing is, they’re not unified in any way, ya know? There’s like thirty sites, that I know of, that people are all over the place, I mean, that’s the thing that’s...

There’s a war going on. And it’s a war for people’s consciousness. And the very first thing you’ll hear anybody say when they want to, when they want to be victorious over a people, you know, “You need to divide and conquer,” ya know? We’ve heard that forever, “Divide and conquer, divide and conquer” and that’s exactly what they’ve done. They’ve segregated the people of the United States - and of the world, by race, religion, I mean, by social status, by how much money they make. I mean, everything is meant to keep us from being like a whole. And so, ya know, that’s the thing. That’s the reason why we’re still in the situation that we’re in, because we haven’t got the power, as a unity, to, like figure out what’s going on and to demand the answers, ya know? So, that’s, that’s the thing.

I always think to myself, ya know, like, What can I do? I’ve been asked to go speak at Northern Kentucky University in the next few weeks and I’ll go down there and talk to the people. And I’m speaking to 50 or 60 people, I guess, and I’m going to tell them the story and I’m not telling the people that the government did 9/11. I’m going to tell them that, “You do the research for yourself,” because that’s really only the freedom we have, you know, to speak for ourselves and figure out what’s going on here, ya know?

I know, you know, people are going to, I mean ... first off... I’m a soldier. I’m highly trained. And I have, I can still carry weapons. I’m to the point where, like, I’m not scared. I like, have a bumper sticker that says: “I love my country. It’s the government that scares me.” I trust nobody in uniform at all anymore, I mean none anymore, like, not at all unless they’re like, military, Army guys when I see the guys come back and they’re giving the new badge, I want to let you know the fact that I appreciate that I don’t want to ruin that for them.

Q - I know that a passenger plane did not hit that Pentagon. I would swear to it, because I have studied every picture, ya know?

Yeah, There was definitely not a plane. And I actually got a, I got a verbal confirmation from one of my friends, Sgt. Worthington(?) soldiers, and I asked him if a plane hit the Pentagon? And I called my buddy, I was, like, Jeez. I wanted to make sure he’s okay. And I talked to one of the soldiers and I was, like, “Man, are you guys all right?” and he’s like, “Yeah, we’re fine, “ and I was like, “Where’d the plane hit?” and he’s like, he couldn’t see a plane. And I’m like, “What?” And he said, “Yeah, I can’t talk about it. But I’ll have Sgt. Worthington(?) call ya.”

So you know, then Sgt. Worthington(?) calls me back and we were on a STU phone , we weren’t on a commercial line, we were on a secret STU, which is our classified phone, and uh, he’s like,” I can’t talk about this.” And I’m like, “We’re on a secure line, man,” and he’s like, “I still can’t talk about this.” And I was like, “Okay.” And then he got shipped over to Qatar, in Bahrain, I guess, or wherever, whatever base is over there.

Q - Could it have been a missile?

I think it was probably, I thought it, personally, I thought it would be a cruise missile. They’re the easiest things to fly, um, they are very accurate, very accurate. I mean, you could fly them right through the streets, you know, they’re only like, about twice as big as a snowboard. I mean like, they’re not very big missiles at all and when the wings pop out, you could just guide that thing, you could guide that thing right through an alley. I mean, just the thing that bothered me is the wreckage, ya know? There’s... I mean, there wasn’t enough plane there. An aluminum plane couldn’t have done that much damage to that building, there’d have been no way.

Q - I have read that a commercial jet, or any jet actually, does not vaporize into thin air.


Q - So a plane would still be there, right? Even if it crashed and exploded into flames, right?

Yeah. You can’t incinerate metal. You’d have to have like, significantly high temperatures. It’s ridiculous, like the fact that these, these, these aircraft just disintegrated is... beyond me. There would be pieces of it, even if they fell down in the towers, there would have been wreckage. You know, you would have found big pieces, of it, ya know. There’s no way, I mean, nobody... you can’t vaporize all of it. Some pieces, I mean you could take all the pieces and try to assemble the plane back, but you’d be missing some pieces, obviously, because some of it does obliterate, it’d be so small you couldn’t find it, but not all of it. That’s just... It’s too, too perfect, I mean, that’s the whole problem with this. They made it look... too good, ya know?

When I talk to people I tell them, like you know what? You can have whatever theory you want about what brought the towers down ... Explosives, the planes, the pancake theory, I don’t care, I was like, I want to know: Why did building 7 fall? I want to know where is the plane that hit the Pentagon? You show me those 2 things and I’ll shut up. I will shut up and never talk about it again.

Building 7 - Larry Silverstein - and that’s the thing. They brought all the rest of those buildings down, too. A lot of people don’t know that. He owned the whole complex. And so, they brought it down because it had pretty heavy damage from the towers falling on them, but they could have re-builded [sic] them. From where they were. I mean, the structure was still there. I mean, they were in bad shape but they could have been rebuilt, but when you got a... you got a multi-billion dollar insurance policy, it’s easier just to break everything down and start from scratch.

That’s my thing. Like well, what well, what if the planes did hit the towers? I mean, Well, Silverstein still had to know about it because then he had demolitions bring his building down just as well, it’s like, we lost two, we might as well lose all seven of them. It doesn’t make any sense to me. Especially once I talked to my demolitions friend, I was like, that’s the thing. Okay, well, the buildings were on fire. Building 7 was on fire. Okay, so you expect the American people to believe that you went into a building - on fire - and strategically planned probably one of the most perfectly done controlled demolitions in the entire history - in a matter of hours - in a burning building? That doesn’t happen! That stuff takes like weeks and weeks to plan like the joists have got to be... and the holes have got to be drilled perfectly, in certain places and all wires have got to be run and the timing’s got to be perfect I mean ....there’s too much sophistication that goes behind something like that to believe that it happened in a matter of hours in a burning building.

Q - You had written that you had worked a bit with explosives? So you know you could not take a 47 story building down without great work?

C4, yeah. Oh yeah. Especially for the towers, if it was indeed, it was controlled demolition, that would have been a team of people, I mean it would have taken about 10 or 15, it would have taken a lot of people and in my opinion, a significant amount of time, maybe a month, in and out of there and just so many... I mean if you have seen them take the building apart, you know, I mean, like, show you the steel framing, and how it was built, it was so complex. There was just so many places that explosives...that had to be planted.

Q - So you think it could have take up to a month? It could not have taken a day?

No way. I don’t think they could have done it that day. No way. No way at all, no.

Q - Did you hear the President say the explosives were put in the buildings by a terrorist?

No. I didn’t hear that. Yeah. I figured that would happen eventually. The terrorists got in! [laughter] Most all of our ... Ya know, and what are we paying the military intelligence for? What are we paying the CIA for? This is what you guys job is - You believe like one guy or two guys came in - What? As janitors? Like, what the Fuck?!

A lot of this is common sense stuff. You don’t have to be an intelligent professor. You don’t have to be, you don’t have to know physics. You can look at it and just go, Well, what... Did building 7 fall? It was barely on fire. Well, ya know, people just... I don’t think people want to know. I get that a lot. When people I try to talk to... they don’t care, they don’t want to know, they don’t want to believe that. They would rather believe that everything’s fine, and the government’s our friend, and they’re taking care of us. And it’s totally not... It’s addictive stuff, man. It’s totally not what’s going on.

Q - Back to Afghanistan. You must have, when you were in Afghanistan... Were you exposed to Depleted Uranium?

No, not at all. But they... Anytime we deploy the armor, the armored divisions for the Abrams tanks and the Howitzers over to other countries, they use Depleted Uranium. And it’s not just... A lot of people think well, the DU is just from bomb flashes. No no no no. The DU comes from rounds used in a lot of the tank rounds like the 101s and the 150 millimeters, those guys are the ones that are using the DU rounds, especially the Howitzers...and they can put those things like 8 miles, down range, and like that’s the thing - they do great, I mean, they do what they’re intended to do. The bad thing is... it makes the land almost inhabitable, you know, right in that spot. You can poison water supplies that way...

Iraq’s the same way. I mean, they’ve got junk yards with old tanks and stuff. And these guys are working around it and the rads are off the chart! These guys are, like, walking around with these old tanks, they’re like, selling scrap metal off old tanks from the Gulf War. But, like, when we deploy our tanks’ battalions, the Abrams specifically has depleted uranium rounds that they use and they are sabot depleted uranium so they have like a casing that, that inside, inside the Abrams, they’ve got a holding bay for the rounds. And when you load them into the gun there’s like a real thick, I don’t know if it’s plastic or if it’s porcelain, there’s a casing over the actual DU head. And when it comes out of the barrel it sheds that casing, and then it’s Depleted Uranium, it’s just, like, a spike. And it does... The damage is tremendous. They do their job. I mean, it can... You can kill anything, but you ruin the land, because of the radiation.

Q - Going back now. When you were with NORAD what was your job? [Note: I had meant to say Central Command, which is at Mac Dill AFB]

NORAD is based in, I think, Colorado. But, we were watching one of the screens. It’s like a live, it’s like a live feed. It’s piped in from NORAD and it’s a live feed of the aerospace grid of the United States, so we can, so the air traffic controllers at Central Command could, like, watch planes fly patterns and this kind of stuff, and make sure that nobody went down. And it was a controlled exercise - like most exercises that the military does, it was controlled, so we that wasn’t anything that was bizarre - the fact that they, you know, that because we saw that grid all the time. But my job for Central Command was to provide communications, so I worked in the network shop there and people had computer problems. I’d go out and fix their computer problems, but.. I just wandered around...

Q - So it [his job] actually wasn’t anything to do with the ops, but you happened to see it because you were there?

I happened to go in there, yeah. And of course, the op order was out in the psy ops guys, and I was peeking over the first page of it, you know, it was, like, opened to, a page. You know, I didn’t like take it out and read it. But it was a top secret document, and it was open to like, page 4, and that’s when it was talking about the scenarios for the planes hitting the Pentagon, the White House, Sears tower was one of them, a building in Dallas was one of them, some place in California, I don’t remember, some power station. So that, I mean, the scenarios were proposed on this op order, the document, this operational order they had had. And I looked at it and I was, like, “Wow. That’s crazy!” And then, like, none of that even struck me as peculiar, until like, later, when I’m, like later going, Holy shit! I read that document! I wish I would have stole it. That would have been the greatest thing I’d ever have done, if I had taken that document. ‘Cause then I could have showed that. Like, Hey, Dude, everybody knew! I did see it, though and I was like, Wow, I wished I’d have grabbed that document! You know, I thought about that. But at the time it didn’t, it didn’t even occur to me. I was so busy with the fact that, you know, what else are they going to do? Is this going to be a nuclear war now?

It really did change things. And I don’t think... We’re being spoon-ally [?] conditioned and the people aren’t really aware of what’s going on and just, just logically looking at stuff. I think as long as people have the .... The most depressed people are the ones who have the illusion that they’re free. I think it was Goethe said that one the best. And that’s exactly what it is. Ya know, everybody thinks things are fine and they don’t care.... Until it affects them directly.

But ya know, I think, I think eventually good will come out of this. I think that we will finally remember why we’re Americans and what this country was founded on, ya know? The truths and the beliefs that this country was founded on will come back. But, ya know, in order to get there we’ll have to go through these times that we are in right now. And that’s, that’s what kills me the most, is that these other countries, like, they despise Americans, they hate us. Because we’re represented by our government. And it’s our government that has given us a bad impression, ya know? They are representing the economics of this country, that’s what they’re doing. That’s all it’s about.

Forum posts

  • Can someone finally expose this lying sack of crap once and for all? Every single thing he says about his alleged "military career" is a lie and anyone who has actually served realizes it. This man is not just a liar - he is a BAD liar. Who finds these pieces of excrement? What hole do they come out of? And why do "journalists" who are warned about liars like Lauro Chavez (if that is his real name - it may not be) continue to do in-depth interviews, and ask softball questions that would make Keith Olbermann proud? How many times do critics of the war in Iraq or of the Bush administration have to find complete liars to do their bidding for them? Have you leftwing losers have no shame whatsoever?

    • This has nothing perse to do with "left" or "right" politics. BUSH MURDERED HIS OWN PEOPLE get over it. I bashed the Clintonistas when they murdered the little kids at WACO too!!! I have little love for grotesque CHILDKILLERS from EITHER party as well as only disgust for those shills that try and perpetually try and use the divide and conquer strategy to keep WE THE PEOPLE apart and from taking back control of OUR GOVERMENT from the trash that loves MONEY AND POWER over all else, and will kill ANYTHING innocent or guilty, doesn’t matter to them to have their way!!!

    • The "lying sack of crap" currently resides in the White House . And why all the sudden slime thrown Keith Olbermann’s way ? Is he starting to hit a little too close to home for you Bush head givers ?

    • Good journalists aren’t interested in the left and right crap...Actually in the context of reality, left is right and right is wrong, anyway, if you know what I mean?

      No politics to it...The so called, leftists seem to be the ones searching for truth as the right, works to stifle it...

      Thanks to Cathy for this interview and sorry for those who would try and make you look little in your effort...Shame is on them and not you...But you knew that...You and all the thinking people who do out number the bad guys as Makemsee pointed out

      The biggest part of the population sitting on the fence only lack facts...Once they hear truth most are easy to bring on our side...You know...The correct and moral one?

      This is because people are basically good at heart and have loved ones they want to safeguard the future for

      Masses wake daily and very soon we’ll have (((VICTORY))) in all we need, desire and deserve

      Concerning Mr. Chavez, first my intuition was on guard and I felt he wasn’t giving truth...Then as I read I changed my mind

      It will be interesting to see what comes from this...Thanks to a wonderful journalist we can now look into it as should be


    • 68-248, you don’t mention one single SPECIFIC reason why this gentleman is a liar. What SPECIFICALLY is it that makes his story crap? You can’t rant like this without showing us the beef. All you have is name-calling and as we all know, when one has to resort to name-calling they’ve lost the debate.

    • What is your explanation for the collapse of Building 7 and a B-757 fitting into a hole at the Pentagon about the size of your bedroom?

  • I know Cathy said this person she talked to ’allegedly’ was Lauro Chavez. My instincts tell me whoever she was talking to was someone who was there in the bunker and saw what he saw.

    I believe, in times to come, when this whole attempt to ’OBLITERATE’ our United States and its Constitution and Bill of Rights, we are in real time witnessing, must recognize the people who really risked their necks for this country and its people, people like Lt. Colonel Lauro Chavez!

    As it stands right now we have no idea what the end results will be. Will we end up just rolling over and allowing these trilateral commission people( who amount to about 500 people total) strategically placed in Congress, Pentagon, and the White house since Jimmy Carter got elected, to enforce their ideas of their elite program on us? These persons are in charge of our Military, our bombs, our National Guard, Special Operations people, legislaters of laws etc etc. Or, how do we resist, how do we unify millions of us, this is what I am imagining now because people, I believe it is coming to the point where we have got to do our own organizing but at the same time, I am aware of infiltraitors! How do we do this. I see how just a few can really control hundreds of millions of us. I wish we would all just turn off the tv for starters. This is their main mechinism of control, the freakin TV.

    What do we have to lose? We know they have these last years been preparing numerous CONCENTRATION CAMPS all over the country and in Canada(Check out the film on Google video regarding the ’camp’ being prepared in Indiana. Greg Palast just filmed about 1,600 people penned up in giant cage just next to a very toxic Exxon refinery near New Orleans. 1,600 people who have been there since Katrina hit last year! How many more camps with people are there out there?

    I don’t know what you’re all feeling out there, but I can tell you straight out that writing to our Congress people feels fake now and somehow delusional. Do you know how many form letters I have received from these fakers that never once answered my questions or even remotely responded to my inquiry!

    Well people I think its time to make a CALL on this. I feel the jury was out for FIVE YEARS and has returned with its verdict and the verdict is GUILTY OF HIGH TREASON! Absolutely without a doubt.

    All we know is based on what is being gathered by the REAL patriots, people who are breaking intelligence for the American people on these sites, THE REAL NEWS!

    What I really know is what my GUT FEELINGS ARE and it says to me we’re all being HAD people and the WRITING IS SCREAMING AT US ON THE WALLS!

    We have to stick together but how do we do that in REAL SPACE AND TIME AND NOT JUST CYBERSPACE? In a way it feels crazy. I am reminded of the RESISTANCE in France during Nazi occupation, the White Rose. How many of them were decapitated to create horror for those who were part of that resistance. Or about those people in Holland who wore red caps to identify themselves to each other as resistance people. I sure hope it doesn’t have to come to this but I am feeling that for a long time now since Sept. 11. When I saw those plances hit the towers, the first words that came out of my mouth was, "this is an inside job. Nobody but nobody gets to attack like that without high treason happening in the system, this is just such an F’N NO BRAINER!"

    I want you all to know something else I noticed, because I pay attention to numbers. The numbers on the planes were a CODE. On the morning of 9/11, there was an announcement to call the FBI if you noticed anything strange. Well , I called to point out the flight numbers on the planes definately seemed to be a code: 11, then, 93(9+3=12), then, 175(1+7+5=13), then 77(7+7=14)!
    What do you think were the ODDS of that. I’m not a mathematician, but I believe this may be VERY SIGNIFICANT to someone out there don’t you think? Obviously my call meant nothing to any of them. I do not know what it means only that I can’t help but notice it.

    Is there anything, anything in our Constitution that gives our Military leaders the right to order the summary arrests of all those in office? And we then appoint someone who is not a trilateralist perhaps from Congress, to be placed in major positions of government until we can organize a real election with paper trails! We can then deal with these perpetraitors later, but we have to protect our country and its people FIRST!

    Come on there has got to be a MECHANISM in cases like this. We are 300 million and they are only about 500. We have their names on the TRILATERAL LISTS, these are TRAITORS!

    My name is makemsee. Please respond somebody!

    • For what it’s worth, I don’t have much faith in this person’s story, but thanks anyway to Cathy Garger for pursuing it. Why do I say this? I think anyone who would be involved with Tommy Franks’ personal communication would be much better-spoken (more specific military jargon, less "you knows," etc.). Just instinct, as another posted said, but in the opposite direction. And this is coming from someone who would like the story to be true!

    • Can’t speak to what happened in NY or Pennsylvania but I can tell you I personally saw the plane that flew into the pentagon. I could literally see the faces of the people on the plane. If it was a drone as this story claims, the drone was life-size, full color, and had moving fake people in it.

      BTW - to get that close to a general officer you need to have outstanding characteristics and in the military - despite what the rumors are - you MUST be able to communicate well. As a former military officer, I’ve been asked to leave meetings because I spoke too plainly and I have a graduate degree as well as a speaking background.

      I’m not buying.

    • Interesting if you are as claimed, however you must realize you are also repeating a "Centcom" type psyops story about being able to see the faces on the plane. Not to say YOU didn’t, only that that "story" in that form has been around. So how fast was the object traveling when you saw it? 500 mph??? or so. We’re "the faces" a blur or very distinct. How did whatever was guiding the plane manage to come in almost perefectly level with the first floor and hardly show any damage to the lawn. I saw the FIRST pictures. There was NO damge to the lawn, and the SUPER SMALL hole in The Pentagon looked like a MINOR bomb blast rather than any big plane had pushed the walls OUT? Something MAJORILY MAJORILY wrong with the "official conspircay theory" as offered by The White House. So so many holes in the fairy tale story of some cave dwellers overcoming one of the most HEAVILY defended buildings on the planet. Can you say STAND DOWN we need this "pearl harbor" type event to get ’america’ on board the new war for resources and to *save* The Empire!

  • This guy is just another pathetic liar who craves attention by inflating his importance. Item. Chavez claims he was deployed to Afghanistan, but on his army separation form - supplied to Alex Jones - there is no indication that he received an Afghanistan deployment service ribbon.

    • There are those researching Chavez’s story as we speak. Someone who was in the military for many years wrote and said that there where several items left off his own military service form that should have been present but were, for whatever reason, left off. So I would not want to hang Lauro Chavez based on an omission. I regret that I am unaware how to investigate his military background ... but like I said, as we speak, others are working on it.

      This fellow is either a tremendously courageous and valuable whistleblower - or the biggest storyteller in history. As far as I am concerned, his story needs to be properly and thoroughly researched (by someone who has access to the necessary documentation) before we cut him to shreds.

      If he does turn out to be a fraud and fooled me and Alex Jones both, then I will certainly state so publicly.

      I don’t claim to be a hard-core investigator. But if I have a gut hunch that someone is legitimately telling the truth as he sees it, I will certainly tell the person’s story - and believe him until proven otherwise. And I guess only time will tell.


    • Chavez told you he deployed to Afghanistan on September 26, 2001. Funny thing, but US Special Forces didn’t deploy to Afghanistan until mid-October. No one telling the truth can be that far off about an event like that. The guy’s story is bogus. Sorry.

      Oh, and one other thing. He told Alex Jones that he didn’t know the name of the officer who mentioned the stand down order. That is very convenient.

    • Whether this additonal story will be verified or not matters little as more and more and more Americans and the world FULLY understand Bush allowed (at the least) INSIDER TRAITORS to murder their own American people as a pretext for Bush’s Reign of Terror. When Bush mumbled something about how when he "saw"??? the plane hit the tower his thoughts were "that was sure one bad pilot" it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to know he was WELL aware that a so called military" exercise" was being conducted for that very scenario. These KILLERS are so sadistic they like to poke fun at their murders and laugh about it. Thomas Jefferson would be so pissed if he knew what the proud office he once held had degenerated into.

    • There is no signature on the form of the commanding officer. It succently states typed name and signature. It only has type name.

  • I can not tell you if this mans story is true or not I can tell you I am a remote viewer a talent I have no control over and live outside Mac Dill my father was retired from NSA thent assigned to Mac Dill Centcom. After years of attacks by local public corruption witnesses all began to strangley end up dead. Attempts of mind control being held illegally captive in Tampa Bay the death threats blacklisting all carried out by these locals claiming military ties. Then when these demons raped my infant daughter and with a good soild case and sound proof the child was raped the case was destroyed and fixed frauds committed justice obstructed. When my father who did work for Gen T Franks wrote a memo to one of the Tampa nazi corrupt judges stateing he knew fraud was committed involving the rape of his grand daughter. Well not long after that personal attacks towards me where stepped up. Then my brother also witness to acts of local corruption ended up strangely dead, then my father ends up with a cancer from no where and is butchered to death by his doctors. At the same time my father is dying another attempt to murder me while at work take place after someone in the Medical Feild warns me my fathers being murdered by his doctors by the sounds of the way he is being threated so I warn my father who being Retired Air Force and NSA employee trust the system and his doctors to soon find out my warnings to him had been correct only to late now he had a certain death sentance. I could never prove they murdered my father, brother, ex-girlfriend only that they threatened to do so and there was an is a clear pattern. Then after my fathers murder things got quiet again until my rape victim child got sick of her rapist abuse and lies and came to live with me. Then Coe who started all the false assaults and attacks towards me as favor to my connected ex-wife killed himself. I was question by my then employers who were doing favors for favors from tampa corrupt cops. I was soon fired without any just cause from my job employee of the year going on 2 yrs. The smartest and best worker the most worked and least paid. Little did i know being fired meant kicked out of my home that came with the job. The only home and only job made affordable and avail to me little did I know would hold a poison. As my rape victim child now was about to turn 18 and statutes of limitations where running out to bring civil/criminal charges over her being raped I attempted to join and have my child file the suits. Soon after that I would be falsely stopped arrested using someone elses DWI to make the arrest denied a right to jury trail threatened to have one that day without witnesses on my behalf called or be imprisoned 5 years on these phony manufactured charges. This was to run me out of my then current job into a job that little did I know held the same poison as the home we’d been forced to move into by the last illegal firing from work. Soon into the work said to be safe and legal by a city inspector. The day of the false arrest I got the strong sense of a Freaking Demon from the low life Nazi Tampa Cop who was falsely arresting me to kill several birds with one stone, as a favor to create a hostile work place wherein I then currently had worked as favor to his buddies whom I made look like the lazy workers they were at work. To rob me of 4 yrs back tax money. to prevent me from freely leaving Florida as long planed and prevented by their corruption. to force me from one job to another in order to poison not just me my entire family to death. Then to find out the home they had forced us into held the 1st batch of poisons that had highly likely killed 3 past residents. Then the job i was just forced into held the 2nd batch of the same poisons nearly killing me before a stranger came up one day telling me the work was illegal and a health hazard. So then when a Doctor pulled me from the work after mine and our childs a 2 yr old did not and was downplaying the symptoms and poison the doctor that did attribute the poison to injury and stopped the work DCF yanked my medicaid refused to pay the doctor and cut off testing and treatment. My primary withheld testing and treatment left me 20 months having heart attacks as did TGH not until my 9th heart attack did they admit heart attacks by that time there had been 8 strokes to caused by the toxic stealth killing poisons. All evidence was destroyed, HUD, OSHA, EPA all refused to investigate, Health Department falsely investigated and were clearly falsely investigating for show. we where stripped of all money personal property and household goods kicked into the streets homeless and me so sick i could bearly walk or hold my own body up from the extreme pain caused by the poisons. Our entire family denied health care, access to the courts or representation or investigations by agencies in charge of such matters with clear violations of federal laws with county judges, police and agencies destroying evidence in federal matters tampering with and intimidating and trying to further murder the witnesses and mainly key witness. The Day of the false arrest to set these wheels in motion I knew this dirty cop somehow triggered Genocide I didn’t know who or where just why Corruption I warned all I knew co-workers every one. The morning of 9/11 my girlfriend I and co-workers went to my home after work wherein I picked up my Bible to confirm My predictions as I often do low and beHold Isaith 33 to 37 as I recal. NO BIBLE CODE WAS NEEDED ON 9/11 aprox 12am I went right to plain Text about the two Tower it told. So The History Channel who Claim some Researcher was the first to Break a Bible Code on 9/11 is totally wrong because there was no code and in was in plan text and I opened the Bible right to the page, no trick no hidden reasons and never having ever read that chapter in the Bible before and opened to those pages in front of witnesses. I am dying and still being illegally held captive in the state of Florida still holding a false DWI on my record preventing me from leaving with my property and family in tact. Still trying to systematically Murder me. I had made other key predictions over the years from Ragan getting Shot the location of the Gen Kidnapped yrs back, Alanta Murders Killer, Adam Walsh killers which I know in my Heart of Hearts had I not been illegally pinned down and under attack by public corruption I could have highly likely found that boy before they murdered him I was like a hound dog on a fresh blood trail back then my Remote Viewing was so in tune and clicking with me but still not in my control but very much a gift. I would later see I was used for that Gift and figured out no wonder I couldn’t control it God knew they were users and abusers. I can’t speak for What this Guy saw in that Bunker at Mac Dill I can tell you that it didn’t take Rocket Science to know my Father also a Awarded Vietnam Hero was murdered to silence him as was my brother, ex-girlfriend and other withnesses and the many attempts on my life. I can tell you I also onvented many life saving products some stolen later but not until years of Genocide took place and forced illegal poverty and oppression. I can tell you the dead witnesses benefit Tampa’s local corruption that has deep ties into the Federal System. I can tell you that 4 people provided the same poison to poison our family with and 3 where tied to the Military one claiming former US Army NSA, one active duty, all claimed to be former Officers 2 Army one Navy, the 4th and first person to provide the poison likely formly married to a GI to gain access and citizenship in the US. I am now left bankrupt with a certain death sentence with proper medical care withheld so long I can never be repaired or fixed I will sooner or later die and am at extremely high risk of sudden death. They thus far have all gotten away with their crimes that amount to years of terror and torture. Make no bones about it the Military Did not protect their own I requested NSA investigate my fathers death/murder and the way our doctors withheld treatment from us over 6 yrs ensuring I would die from the poison that was intended to kill me in 03 so it confirms to me doctors willfully murdered my father and were willing to murder my entire family including my 2 yr old child. So if you want to call me a Liar on here go right ahead but I’ll tell ya put your money wherein your mouth is I take polygraphs voice stress what ever you like. I know Mac Dill is Corrupt and I know Tampa id Deeply rooted in Corruption and they run the city as the Mafia by Fear Tactics to its citizens who know to much. I also know the Feds are a Joke in Tampa and clearly After the Coe/Holder investigation just as corrupt TAMPA FLORIDA IS NO BETTER THAN LIVING IN NAZI GERMANY OR THE USSR and The Military has been Traitors to its own people and family whom servered them above the call to Duty over 32 years and not just our Father but our entire Family, Yeah The Military Takes Care of its Own alright Sure How Like This Terrorizing murdering raping and poisoning children all which took place within the ten miles of Base Jurisdiction surounding any US Military Base in the world, yet a blind eye is turned in Tampa you should also take notice every military base we ever lived military police patrol the outside of the base within that ten mile jurisdiction sometimes less depending on the demand. Not once have I seen Mac Dill patrolled on its outside so they are not to worried about any real attacks sure it got tighter security after 9/11 but the idea is to fiol any atempt before it gets on base not after or as it unfolds. So truth is there could be Some Truth in This SGT’s Story, Its already be stated Norad was ordered to Stand Down so the real question is WHY all we have as proof is video of Arab me at airports said to be boarding flights which ended up blowing up our buildings which is highly like true planes blew these buildings all of them. But how do we know these photos shown us of Arab men at airports did this we have nothing and when there are as many lies and things not answered or unable to be answered we have good reason to be suspect of evil from within more so when a entire government system fails to prevent it then fails to provide truth and justice after the fact. All I can hope for is to live long enough to get out of Florida Alive and enjoy what little life I have left before I do end up dead or they figure away to murder me sooner and it still looks like a mishap or accident as is the pattern here. I do have to wonder how many murders Tampa Doctors have committed og behalf of Public Corruption here in Florida and other States and for our so called us government that appear more like nazis anymore than a free government with human and civil rights i sure haven’t seen any of them enforced All I have seen is Hundreds of Thousands Oceans of Graves of Men, Women and Children who gave their lives so we could all be free done so in total vain so we could be dictated to enslaved and violated in gross ways by a select few above the laws no longer even made by the poeople but also dictated by select few in state and government. Its a Sad day in America when the Military no longer takes care of its own or was that always just a lie to window dressing to please the public?

  • Can not say if this guy is telling the truth or not can say over the years I been told or figured out things about the Military I should not have been told and even if I didn’t like what I was told or figured out I kept my mouth shut except to who I knew, knew of a matter and even then the content limited to my own questions. I have always felt these people serve our nation put their lives on the line at times of war and conflict so who am i to tell them how to do or what they need to do their jobs. More so when things hit close to home the pain cuts deep and we often blame those innocent because they look guilty to us. What is Clear is to much corruption in government and states and corperate levels. That tells me they are holding to much power, to much control, to much tax payer money, not talking in the form of paychecks either if anything many workers are under paid. I am talking to much in way of Budgets. If our states and government agencies have this much time and money to be plotting crimes against their own military and citizens and making weapons and laws to use towards its own citizens while it steady protects corperations that pour poisons in our systems and living and work areas with no accountability or real punishments then that calls for budget cuts that are deep. It calls for New Leadership in Public Office that represents the people that are not lawyers or former military officers. Its clear enlisted men show more honor than many officers and that slaps on the wrist don’t cut it as nor do lame incompleted investigations that cough up a few goats and get sweeped under the rugs. While we hate to deny or troops the funds they need at the same time we seem to be fueling government corruption to make weapons and laws against its own people. GW BUSH waged war on Innocent American Born Citizens as a whole and in more ways than one taking us all for fools with his lies and the very state that was so corrupt and enabled him to pull such a cudata to get in the white house has yet to be held accountabble only a fool would visit Florida and spend one red cent in this Nazi Corrupt Slave State that nearly caused the Bankrupting of America and still may do so before all is said and done. The Man lied to get in office this all took place on his watch and its all got a ring of evil and corruption around it. So the fact is we don’t know the Truth around 9/11, the Same GW Bush and Family are tied into and connected to the JFK, RFK, MLK murders, Hitler and the Nazi’s and World Bank that Put Hitler in Power Tampa is Populated with mostly German Decent contray to what most think that might be so for much of Fla. I don’t think it takes Rocket Science to know that if GW Bush had not got into Office That its highly likey no 9/11 ever would have taken place, no war no falling economy, HW Bush still makes regular check ups on the CIA and its business cut that corrupt old goat off he does not need to know nothing quit buying anything owned or operated by any Bush or Chainy family members or their friends follow the money trail and favor trail those suspected of being corrupt controlling our nation as dictators hit them wherein it counts their wallets ID their companies and stop buying them or allowing government or states to buy or support their products send them to the poor house of oppressio and poverty see how they like it. One thing clear the Tampa area is very corrupt and deadly to those who threaten public corruption or stand in its as they will rape and poison children and they will murder military persons and their dependants and make them look like accident and mishaps and you can bet somebody at Mac Dill active or retired is highly deeply involved and I suspect a number of them and more are retired or former military.