How the Ohio election was rigged for Bush

Forum posts

• 23 November 2004, 00:19

  that quote was worth a picture

  

  these guys are unbelievable... America’s new motto should be, a la republican actions:

  "Do anything to win- cheaters do prosper"

• 23 November 2004, 19:13

  There are long lines in other parts of the nation, for example in Philadelphia controled by democrates, so the democrates there suppressed the voters also? Some happened alos in Republican heavy areas as well. When you accused , you must provide the proof, where is the proof other than the phenomenon occurred in many other places as well? Why pick Columbus, Franklin county among so many parts of nations. This is obviously of EVIL intention. Bush has more than 3.5 millions of votes than Kerry. If you dirty trick were successful, then Kerry became President, how about the 51% of of Americans, more than those had voted for Kerry, they would be angry.Kerry did not win it clean. What you are doing is to divide the nation. I am from a communist nation, many of you the behavior like red guards in communist china. It is shameful indeed.

  • 24 November 2004, 05:06

    Give me a break. The point is that the system is broken. Only by exposing the fractures can we mend a country. If the elections were not democratic, then the country is in much worse shape...

  • 25 November 2004, 06:51

    Exposing the fractures? I assume that there were no voting problems in blue states, just in Ohio in 2004 and Florida in 2000. It’s an interesting election phenomenon that the last state to push the Republican candidtate over the 270 electoral votes needed to become President is declared rigged by liberals. Where are all these conspiracy theorists when it comes to blue states like New Hamphire, Wisconsin, Michigan, or Pennsylvania? The liberals are not trying to mend this country, they are trying to do the opposite. They are trying to divide the country by calling the election rigged. If they were so concerned with our voting processes, they would put equal effort in examining the blue states as well. It’s just a smoke screen that makes liberals look like a bunch of winy babies.

  • 30 November 2004, 08:53

    I didn’t know locking yourself in a room with the vote tally in Warren County after faking a terrorist threat was conservative? You re-pukes make me laugh, especially in Ohio. You have no problem disenfranchising thousands of black voters because you religious fascists feel so vindicated by Jesus that you think forcing your religious beliefs on others through ’faith based initiatives’ is just okay. Wake the hell up you jackasses. 100,000 people applied for Canadian citizenship the day after the election. It’s not because the weather’s nice. You bible thumping zealots will continue to rack up a deficit while preaching fiscal responsibility. You will persecute gays and take away civil rights while you champion the constitution. Notice the blue states seemed to coincide with the areas full of gun-toting religious zealots who are too stupid to look up FACTS. 90% of the IQ rests in the red states. Have fun ushering your children into your post-apocalyptic Jesus loving trailor parks laden with bunker busting freedom bombs. And BTW, I want my job back, which left Columbus, Ohio two years ago for China. Have fun the next four years.

• 24 November 2004, 16:37

  This is insanity. I look at Kiev these days and wonder when Americans will go into the streets to demand a righting of this wrong. Sadly, never.

  PB

  www.virtualp.us

  • 24 November 2004, 17:42

    This place is a Banana Republic, worst of all a hypocritical one.

  • 25 November 2004, 07:07

    You might want to consider moving to Kiev becase there’s nothing about the US election to protest.

  • 25 November 2004, 19:31

    The War Prayer Sept 1904

    by Mark Twain

    It was a time of great exulting and excitement. The country was up in arms,
    the war was on, in every breast burned the holy fire of patriotism; the
    drums were beating, the bands playing, the toy pistols popping, the bunched
    firecrackers hissing and sputtering; on every hand and far down the receding
    and fading spread of roofs and balconies a fluttering wilderness of flags
    flashed in the sun; daily the young volunteers marched down the wide avenue
    gay and fine in their new uniforms, the proud fathers and mothers and
    sisters and sweethearts cheering them with voices choked with happy emotion
    as they swung by; nightly the packed mass meetings listened, panting, to
    patriot oratory which stirred the deepest depths of their hearts, and which
    they interrupted at briefest intervals with cyclones of applause, the tears
    running down their cheeks the while; in the churches the pastors preached
    devotion to flag and country, and invoked the God of Battles, beseeching His
    aid in our good cause in outpourings of fervid eloquence which moved every
    listener. It was indeed a glad and gracious time, and the half dozen rash
    spirits that ventured to disapprove of the war and cast doubt upon its
    righteousness straight way got such a stern and angry warning that for their
    personal safety’s sake they quickly shrank out of sight and offended no more
    in that way.

    Sunday morning came - next day the battalions would leave for the front; the
    church was filled; the volunteers were there, their young faces alight with
    martial dreams - visions of the stern advance, the gathering momentum, the
    rushing charge, the flashing sabers, the flight of the foe, the tumult, the
    enveloping smoke, the fierce pursuit, the surrender! - then home from the
    war, bronzed heroes, welcomed, adored, submerged in golden seas of glory!
    With the volunteers sat their dear ones, proud, happy, and envied by the
    neighbors and friends who had no sons and brothers to send forth to the
    field of honor, there to win for the flag, or failing, die the noblest of
    noble deaths. The service proceeded; a war chapter from the Old Testament
    was read; the first prayer was said; it was followed by an organ burst that
    shook the building, and with one impulse the house rose, with glowing eyes
    and beating hearts, and poured out that tremendous invocation:

    "God the all-terrible! Thou who ordainest, Thunder thy clarion and lightning
    thy sword!"

    Then came the "long" prayer. None could remember the like of it for
    passionate pleading and moving and beautiful language. The burden of its
    supplication was, that an ever-merciful and benignant Father of us all would
    watch over our noble young soldiers, and aid, comfort, and encourage them in
    their patriotic work; bless them, shield them in the day of battle and the
    hour of peril, bear them in His mighty hand, make them strong and confident,
    invincible in the bloody onset; help them to crush the foe, grant to them
    and to their flag and country imperishable honor and glory - An aged
    stranger entered and moved with slow and noiseless step up the main aisle,
    his eyes fixed upon the minister, his long body clothed in a robe that
    reached to his feet, his head bare, his white hair descending in a frothy
    cataract to his shoulders, his seamy face unnaturally pale, pale even to
    ghastliness. With all eyes following and wondering, he made his silent way;
    without pausing, he ascended to the preacher’s side and stood there,
    waiting. With shut lids the preacher, unconscious of his presence, continued
    his moving prayer, and at last finished it with the words, uttered in
    fervent appeal, "Bless our arms, grant us victory, O Lord our God, Father
    and Protector of our land and flag!"

    The stranger touched his arm, motioned him to step aside - which the
    startled minister did - and took his place. During some moments he surveyed
    the spellbound audience with solemn eyes, in which burned an uncanny light;
    then in a deep voice he said:

    "I come from the Throne - bearing a message from Almighty God!" The words
    smote the house with a shock; if the stranger perceived it he gave no
    attention. "He has heard the prayer of His servant your shepherd, and will
    grant it if such be your desire after I, His messenger, shall have explained
    to you its import - that is to say, its full import. For it is like unto
    many of the prayers of men, in that it asks for more than he who utters it
    is aware of - except he pause and think.

    "God’s servant and yours has prayed his prayer. Has he paused and taken
    thought? Is it one prayer? No, it is two - one uttered, the other not. Both
    have reached the ear of Him Who heareth all supplications, the spoken and
    the unspoken. Ponder this - keep it in mind. If you would beseech a blessing
    upon yourself, beware! lest without intent you invoke a curse upon a
    neighbor at the same time. If you pray for the blessing of rain upon your
    crop which needs it, by that act you are possibly praying for a curse upon
    some neighbor’s crop which may not need rain and can be injured by it.

    "You have heard your servant’s prayer - the uttered part of it. I am
    commissioned of God to put into words the other part of it - that part which
    the pastor - and also you in your hearts - fervently prayed silently. And
    ignorantly and unthinkingly? God grant that it was so! You heard these
    words: ’Grant us victory, O Lord our God!’ That is sufficient. The whole of
    the uttered prayer is compact into those pregnant words. Elaborations were
    not necessary. When you have prayed for victory you have prayed for many
    unmentioned results which follow victory - must follow it, cannot help but
    follow it. Upon the listening spirit of God the Father fell also the
    unspoken part of the prayer. He commandeth me to put it into words. Listen!

    "O Lord our Father, our young patriots, idols of our hearts, go forth to
    battle - be Thou near them! With them - in spirit - we also go forth from
    the sweet peace of our beloved firesides to smite the foe. O Lord our God,
    help us to tear their soldiers to bloody shreds with our shells; help us to
    cover their smiling fields with the pale forms of their patriot dead; help
    us to drown the thunder of the guns with shrieks of their wounded, writhing
    in pain; help us to lay waste their humble homes with hurricanes of fire;
    help us to wring the hearts of their unoffending widows with unavailing
    grief; help us to turn them out roofless with their little children to
    wander unfriended the wastes of their desolated land in rags and hunger and
    thirst, sports of the sun flames of summer and the icy winds of winter,
    broken in spirit, worn with travail, imploring Thee for the refuge of the
    grave and denied it - for our sakes who adore Thee, Lord, blast their hopes,
    blight their lives, protract their bitter pilgrimage, make heavy their
    steps, water their way with tears, stain the white snow with the blood of
    their wounded feet! We ask it, in the spirit of love, of Him Who is the
    Source of Love, and Who is the ever-faithful refuge and friend of all that
    are sore beset and seek His aid with humble and contrite hearts. Amen."

    [After a pause.] "Ye have prayed it; if ye still desire it, speak! The
    messenger of the Most High waits."

    It was believed afterward that the man was a lunatic, because there was no
    sense in what he said.
    xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

    We’re Not in Lake Wobegon Anymore Sept 3, 2004
    by Garrison Keillor

    How did the Party of Lincoln and Liberty transmogrify into the Party of Newt
    Gingrich’s Evil Spawn and their Etch-A-Sketch President, a Dull and Rigid
    Man, whose Philosophy is a Jumble of badly sutured Body Parts trying to
    Walk?

    Something has gone seriously haywire with the Republican Party. Once, it was
    the party of pragmatic Main Street businessmen in steel-rimmed spectacles
    who decried profligacy and waste, were devoted to their communities and
    supported the sort of prosperity that raises all ships. They were
    good-hearted people who vanquished the gnarlier elements of their party, the
    paranoid Roosevelt-haters, the flat Earthers and Prohibitionists, the
    antipapist antiforeigner element. The genial Eisenhower was their man, a
    genuine American hero of D-Day, who made it OK for reasonable people to vote
    Republican. He brought the Korean War to a stalemate, produced the
    Interstate Highway System, declined to rescue the French colonial army in
    Vietnam, and gave us a period of peace and prosperity, in which (oddly)
    American arts and letters flourished and higher education burgeoned-and
    there was a degree of plain decency in the country. Fifties Republicans were
    giants compared to today’s. Richard Nixon was the last Republican leader to
    feel a Christian obligation toward the poor.

    In the years between Nixon and Newt Gingrich, the party migrated southward
    down the Twisting Trail of Rhetoric and sneered at the idea of public
    service and became the Scourge of Liberalism, the Great Crusade Against the
    Sixties, the Death Star of Government, a gang of pirates that diverted and
    fascinated the media by their sheer chutzpah, such as the misty-eyed
    flag-waving of Ronald Reagan who, while George McGovern flew bombers in
    World War II, took a pass and made training films in Long Beach. The Nixon
    moderate vanished like the passenger pigeon, purged by a legion of angry
    white men who rose to power on pure punk politics. "Bipartisanship is
    another term of date rape," says Grover Norquist, the Sid Vicious of the
    GOP. "I don’t want to abolish government. I simply want to reduce it to the
    size where I can drag it into the bathroom and drown it in the bathtub." The
    boy has Oedipal problems and government is his daddy.

    The party of Lincoln and Liberty was transmogrified into the party of
    hairy-backed swamp developers and corporate shills, faith-based economists,
    fundamentalist bullies with Bibles, Christians of convenience, freelance
    racists, misanthropic frat boys, shrieking midgets of AM radio, tax cheats,
    nihilists in golf pants, brownshirts in pinstripes, sweatshop tycoons,
    hacks, fakirs, aggressive dorks, Lamborghini libertarians, people who
    believe Neil Armstrong’s moonwalk was filmed in Roswell, New Mexico, little
    honkers out to diminish the rest of us, Newt’s evil spawn and their
    Etch-A-Sketch president, a dull and rigid man suspicious of the free flow of
    information and of secular institutions, whose philosophy is a jumble of
    badly sutured body parts trying to walk. Republicans: The No.1 reason the
    rest of the world thinks we’re deaf, dumb and dangerous.

    Rich ironies abound! Lies pop up like toadstools in the forest! Wild swine
    crowd round the public trough! Outrageous gerrymandering! Pocket lining on a
    massive scale! Paid lobbyists sit in committee rooms and write legislation
    to alleviate the suffering of billionaires! Hypocrisies shine like cat turds
    in the moonlight! O Mark Twain, where art thou at this hour? Arise and
    behold the Gilded Age reincarnated gaudier than ever, upholding great wealth
    as the sure sign of Divine Grace.

    Here in 2004, George W. Bush is running for reelection on a platform of
    tragedy-the single greatest failure of national defense in our history, the
    attacks of 9/11 in which 19 men with box cutters put this nation into a
    tailspin, a failure the details of which the White House fought to keep
    secret even as it ran the country into hock up to the hubcaps, thanks to
    generous tax cuts for the well-fixed, hoping to lead us into a box canyon of
    debt that will render government impotent, even as we engage in a war
    against a small country that was undertaken for the president’s personal
    satisfaction but sold to the American public on the basis of brazen
    misinformation, a war whose purpose is to distract us from an enormous
    transfer of wealth taking place in this country, flowing upward, and the
    deception is working beautifully.

    The concentration of wealth and power in the hands of the few is the death
    knell of democracy. No republic in the history of humanity has survived
    this. The election of 2004 will say something about what happens to ours.
    The omens are not good.

    Our beloved land has been fogged with fear-fear, the greatest political
    strategy ever. An ominous silence, distant sirens, a drumbeat of whispered
    warnings and alarms to keep the public uneasy and silence the opposition.
    And in a time of vague fear, you can appoint bullet-brained judges, strip
    the bark off the Constitution, eviscerate federal regulatory agencies, bring
    public education to a standstill, stupefy the press, lavish gorgeous tax
    breaks on the rich.

    There is a stink drifting through this election year. It isn’t the Florida
    recount or the Supreme Court decision. No, it’s 9/11 that we keep coming
    back to. It wasn’t the "end of innocence," or a turning point in our
    history, or a cosmic occurrence, it was an event, a lapse of security. And
    patriotism shouldn’t prevent people from asking hard questions of the man
    who was purportedly in charge of national security at the time.

    Whenever I think of those New Yorkers hurrying along Park Place or getting
    off the No.1 Broadway local, hustling toward their office on the 90th floor,
    the morning paper under their arms, I think of that non-reader George W.
    Bush and how he hopes to exploit those people with a little economic uptick,
    maybe the capture of Osama, cruise to victory in November and proceed to get
    some serious nation-changing done in his second term.

    This year, as in the past, Republicans will portray us Democrats as
    embittered academics, desiccated Unitarians, whacked-out hippies and
    communards, people who talk to telephone poles, the party of the Deadheads.
    They will wave enormous flags and wow over and over the footage of firemen
    in the wreckage of the World Trade Center and bodies being carried out and
    they will lie about their economic policies with astonishing enthusiasm.

    The Union is what needs defending this year. Government of Enron and by
    Halliburton and for the Southern Baptists is not the same as what Lincoln
    spoke of. This gang of Pithecanthropus Republicanii has humbugged us to
    death on terrorism and tax cuts for the comfy and school prayer and flag
    burning and claimed the right to know what books we read and to dump their
    sewage upstream from the town and clear-cut the forests and gut the IRS and
    mark up the constitution on behalf of intolerance and promote the corporate
    takeover of the public airwaves and to hell with anybody who opposes them.

    This is a great country, and it wasn’t made so by angry people. We have a
    sacred duty to bequeath it to our grandchildren in better shape than however
    we found it. We have a long way to go and we’re not getting any younger.

    Dante said that the hottest place in Hell is reserved for those who in time
    of crisis remain neutral, so I have spoken my piece, and thank you, dear
    reader. It’s a beautiful world, rain or shine, and there is more to life
    than winning.

• 24 November 2004, 20:42

  We feel your pain and we love it.

• 24 November 2004, 22:32

  Another manifestation of the election being rigged in favor of Bush is seen in the vote tallies of the provisional ballots. Why was this standby almost exclusively used by Kerry supporters to try to get their vote to count? If the provisional ballot mechanism was truly non-partisan in nature, the provisional ballot votes for Bush should be in approximate proportion as his overall vote tally, but it defintely is NOT. It is almost overwhelmingly for Kerry, apparently, from the information I have received.

  • 24 November 2004, 23:52

    Duh....the provisional ballot laws were recently put there due to the thieft of the 2000 election...it was supposed to be a safe guard for people who were eligible to vote but were being denied the right by Republican poll minders...get it...the Republican elections officials (crooks) have been denying people the right to vote and therefore the provisional ballots were a safety net to give these voters a chance to vote...they were put there to get around Republican dirty tricks....get it yet? Does it make sense that if Democrat voters are not being allowed to vote even though they are eligible that this explains why they are the ones who need to cast their ballots on provisional ballots because they can’t get past the Republican poll tenders....can you be so stupid? Lets see how to explain it to a moron, first the eligible voter is denied the regular ballot (Republican poll workers says NO I decided you can not vote i.e., you are registered Democrat, I want Bush so I am taking it upon myself to see that you can’t vote) the voter then requests a provisional ballot, and is entitled to one by the new laws, so the Republican poll worker must (doesn’t want too though) give the voter one, voter votes for Kerry as was already apparent when he registered Democrat the Republican poll worker (dirty tricks party) has to accept the provisional ballot, isn’t able to pitch it in the trash as others are watching, this happens all day long, and guess what only Democrat voters are being forced to cast provisional ballots...get it yet?

  • 25 November 2004, 00:00

    You lefties are so insane. There could be various reasons that a voter might be left out of the voter list on election day. Those people who could not be verified are given the provisional ballot. They can be republican as well as democratic voters. What makes you think that democratic elections officials are also not at the polls in order to look out for the democrat voter?

  • 25 November 2004, 00:27

    They were there looking out for the Democratic voter, that is why the provisional ballots were not pitched in the garbage....and since the provisional ballots were mostly used by Democrat voters, it just says that the Republicans were allowed to vote on regular ballots while the Democrats were denied the regular ballots in hope that they would not be counted.

  • 25 November 2004, 17:51

    Some more unfounded liberal allegations.

  • 2 December 2004, 06:12

    You are very imaginative, but it turns out that you are just like a liberal amking no sense at all. In Ohio, the election board consists of equal numbers of democrates and Republicans. More than that, the county in questions, Franklin county, the chairman of Democratic county (Anthony) is also chairman off election board. Anthony evensaid to Columbus Dispatch: ( I am a black man also democrate, how would I sit there to do that thing to disenfranchize my community (people) to vote). This is the same situation in Hamilton County, Montgomery county. The election Business of Cuyahoga County was even done in a democratic party office These democrates already denied accusations you talked about from their fellow democrates. Are you suggesting that the Democrates want Bush to win also. Then, you start a new party, preferrably called ABB party (anybody but Bush).

• 25 November 2004, 06:07

  I think you’re smoking crack, buddy.

• 25 November 2004, 19:03

  I am a Republican who lives in Cleveland, and I think there are two sides to this—and both sides point to the same thing. I grew up outside of Philadelphia, which has a history of democratic voter fraud. But, in Ohio, the voter fraud was largely Republican. I was at the polls all day long, in an almost exclusively African-American precinct and I did not see a single sign of voter fraud on behalf of the democrats. The Republican challengers did not even challenge anyone’s registration, because it was so well-organized. Throughout the whole day, there was only one slight discsrepancy in names, and it was a spelling error.

  What is the problem in Ohio? The problem is a conflict of interest. Kenneth Blackwell, a right-wing extremist republican, was the head of the Bush-Cheney campaign in Ohio, and he was also the secretary of state in Ohio, and is the one who is ultimately in charge of overseeing the election. He also was supporting the "Issue 1" amendment in Ohio, an amendment to the ohio constitution which goes beyond banning gay marriage to actually make it illegal for anyone in the state to provide marriage-like benefits to employees. The amendment was anti-business and anti-American. Another conflict of interest in this election was the Diebold corporation.

  I personally would like to see more criticism of our election, and I would like to see us solve these problems. I would like to see public officials such as Blackwell, with a clear conflict of interest, banned from participating in the election process, or at least, made to work with opposition leaders as well. I would like to see crackdowns on the "dead voter" phenomenon in heavily democratic cities such as Philadelphia or Chicago. I would like to see fair, consistent policies for voting in rural areas, suburbs, and cities alike. And I would like to see requirements on voting machines that they are based on open standards, that their software and hardware is fully open-source and the specifications are available to public scrutiny, and that the machines leave paper trails. And all mechanical machines should be examined as well—New York state uses a certain type of level-machine that has been shown to have as much as 20% inaccuracy.

  All these inconsistencies are ABSOLUTELY INEXCUSABLE in a democracy.

  And I can say: anyone who opposes these policies, whether democrat or republican, is not a real American, and does not really believe in free elections.

  We as Americans need to band together, become UNIFIED, and agree to end voter fraud and voting inconsistencies once and for all. We need to come from both sides of the political spectrum, and put and end to ALL voter fraud. Anything less is simply wrong.

  • 25 November 2004, 23:12

    You make the statement "in Ohio, the voter fraud was largely Republican". Could you tell me what evidence you have of this.

  • 26 November 2004, 04:49

    On the right side there is a list of articles...there are about 10 or more that will spell it out about the election fraud issue...or do you need someone to read it to you?

  • 26 November 2004, 06:38

    No I was asking a simple question, what evidence is there to suggest voter fraud. Does the claim of an inadequate number of voting machines constitute voter fraud? I doubt it. Does the claim of a higher number of democrats than republicans using provisional ballots constitute voter fraud? I doubt it. Does the fact that an error was made in counting votes in one of the counties constitute voter fraud. As far as I’ve heard on this one, it was a machine error, not an intentional human error. Unless there is evidence that suggests otherwise, making statements that it IS voter fraud is irresponsible. I asked the question because I wanted to know what the person thought was republican voter fraud and the evidence there was to support it.

  • 26 November 2004, 08:55

    Nothing would constitute fraud to a Bush butt kisser...maybe he will let you wipe his ass for him why don’t you go volunteer?

  • 26 November 2004, 23:34

    I worked at a polling place on the edge Columbus metro area (but outside of Franklin County) and I saw no irregularities, but there were very long lines for most of the morning. I worked from 6:00AM until 10:15PM that night. I spent a lot of time explaining to many voters (who had never used them before) how to use the punchcard system. In every case that I saw poll workers (a purposeful mix of pollitical affiliatons) bent over backwards to ensure fairness, equality and access for each voter.

    It mattered not to me if every voter was there to vote for the candidate that I did not favor, I was there to uphold the sanctity and honesty of the voting process. I am also a Republican and agree with the Cleveland Republican that we need to get our elections process whipped into shape so that there can be no opportunity for, or claims of, partisanship, disenfranchisement or fraud.

    We need to have enough voting equipment and staff to handle high-turnout elections; having ’adequte’ equipment for ’most’ elections just isn’t good enough.

  • 27 November 2004, 01:20

    Exactly what I thought... no proof. Thanks for clearing things up.

  • 2 December 2004, 06:29

    First of all, Ohio did not use Diebold voting machines. Also, there were long lines in Republican and Democrates areas, I agree we have to improve nationwide, but we cannot call this as a republican fraud. About conflict of interest, what does a chairman of a Democratic Party in a county do? I assume that he/she would have to campaign for Kerry. So, it is a conflict of interest that he /she is a chairman of election Board of theat county also. Don’t blame SOS of Ohio.

• 7 April 2007, 17:55

  BUSH WON BECAUSE THE VOTERS HAD SOME COMMON SENSE THAT DAY.

  • 7 April 2007, 19:30

    The thing Citizens MUST have in order to ensure nobody cheats (and people WILL cheat especially when the stakes are so high) is to have an ABSOLUTELY transparent process. When you have sealed machines , that the citizens have no way of knowing if the results were fair, you’re asking for trouble. A simple process, that gives the voter a paper copy of the vote, also with a number, that can be used to access a secure data base for the Citzens confirmation that the vote was recorded accurately would be easy enough to implement, and make our voting process much more trust-worthy. Remember you few people, who still for some reason, think Bush has done a good job, next time the same forces that installed Bush may install Hillary and your BADLY going to wish you had stood up to a secure voting process rather than simply being blindly partisan. I’m basically a Libertarian/3rd party kind of guy, and I remain in awe that anyone of ANY persuasion can back Bush, but whatever if you still think he’s directing our country well, more power to you, but you are in a REAL minority now. Hillary will never get my vote either, I’m waiting to see how Ron Paul does in expressing his thoughts for the country, and though I’m not a Democrat I like Dennis Kucinnich’s seeming stand on Civil Liberties. If Hillary get’s SELECTED I’m very concerned for the direction of our country, just as much as I am if Mcaine get’s selected. I don’t see that either of these candidates have any abilty to be anything other than pawns for the NWO Agenda. I’ve heard Costa Rica or Panama are not bad places to retire!!!