Veteran in Central Command Bunker on 9/11 Speaks Out

Veteran in Central Comman Bunker on 9/11 Speaks Out -

Interview with former Sgt. Lauro Chavez

Cathy Garger

As an Auxiliary Member of Veterans for 9/11 Truth www.V911T.org I came upon a post on the V911T Yahoo group with regard to veteran Sgt Lauro Chavez. Soon after, a copy of a letter reportedly written by Lauro Chavez was posted on the group’s website: http://www.v911t.org/SergeantLauroChavez.php .

Before continuing, it might be helpful to read the details contained in that letter (link above). Below is the transcript of an interview with a man who identified himself as Lauro Chavez. Chavez claims he was in the bunker of the US Air Force Central Command, Mac Dill AFB, Florida, on the morning of September 11, 2001. Lauro Chavez also claims to have served personally under General Tommy Franks.

Intrigued by this veteran’s remarks regarding 9/11, I interviewed Lauro Chavez by phone on September 24. After the interview I attempted to confirm his identity by calling the Public Affairs office of Mac Dill AFB. I was told that although I had the right to know whether or not a certain employee had worked at that base, the computer was unable to bring up former employees’ information. The Mac Dill Public Affairs representative conveyed that although she had worked there during September, 2001, she could not recall hearing of anyone by the name of Lauro Chavez. I asked if this was possible given the number of individuals who serve at the base and she agreed.

On the Info Wars website, however, confirmation of Sgt. Chavez’s military record is posted. With thanks to Alex Jones, this alleged verification of Sgt. Chavez’s military record document appears on the Info Wars website: http://www.infowars.com/articles/sept11/LChavez_214.pdf

I use the words “reported” and “alleged” as I have no way of knowing if the following information is true. I can state only that the following is a telephone conversation that took place between myself and a gentleman claiming to be Lauro Chavez. While I did my best to write down every word exactly as heard, please know that some repetitive words ( “like” and “ya know”) have been removed.

There are many theories regarding what happened on 9/11. Mounting physical and scientific evidence increasingly suggest, however, that far too many disturbing anomalies and un-answered questions exist concerning the “official story” told by those in government and by those who served on the 9/11 Commission. My purpose is to provide only the transcription of the interview with a man identifying himself as Lauro Chavez, who claims to have been within the US Air Force Central Command bunker the morning of September 11, 2001.

You, the reader, are invited to draw your own conclusions about both this interview and the story that has been told by the US federal government and the 9/11 Commission.

Cathy Garger
September 26, 2006

************************************************************************
INTERVIEW WITH LAURO CHAVEZ (September 24, 2006)

Questions marked by Q, asked by Cathy Garger

Q - What made you want to tell the story now?

Good question. Honestly when 9/11 happened and ah, ya know, we’re standing down there in the middle of this exercise and I was... it kind of scared me, I mean, if you really want to know the honest truth. It was like really troublesome you know, and then I really couldn’t... I didn’t have time to really run through things in my head because, ya know, very soon after I was deployed to Afghanistan and I really ya know, in that situation, I didn’t really think about anything other than, ya know, making sure I came back in one piece. And that was always kind of my philosophy... it’s always been in there, back of my mind. And then when I came back I started to ya know, ask some questions like well like, what’s this deal with the NORAD thing, ya know? How come one of the most sophisticated defense forces in the world could be out-thought and out-gamed by these tattered little guys (laughter) ya know? And I really just never got any questions, never got my questions answered

And I worked right for General Franks, I don’t know if you’re familiar with who Tommy Franks was? He was - I was the only individual allowed to work on his personal communications at his home and in his plane and I’d ask, General Franks, a few times, ya know, when I was over his house, and um, like, ya know: “Sir, what a ya think about all this”? And he’s well, he’s like, ya know, “Just” ... He’s like, ya know, “There are some things that need... that just happen and they need to happen and we don’t know why they happen but...” He gave this really, like, ominous answer and I’m like, Whoa man! Ya know, I wasn’t expecting that.

So I just , I don’t know... it just, it took - I joined the Army because I wanted to be a part of something bigger than me. I think it really it really took it away when I found out that maybe not all this was as it seems and what am I... what am I putting my life on the line for here - my countrymen... or somebody’s money? Ya know, it just, ya know, if my heart’s - not in that then, there’s nothing that - I couldn’t be... I couldn’t be a comrade to these people. I didn’t think along these lines - I wanted to shake them all awake and say, “Hey! What are we doing here, ya know?”

Q - How soon after 9/11 did you go to Afghanistan?

It was about 2 ½ weeks after 9/11 that it happened, the 26th, a couple of weeks, few weeks.

Q - Before that, you hadn’t added it all up exactly?

My really good friend that was a Colonel that I talk about that used to run the Army Corp of Engineers ..... We were down there in the bunker and we were, like, watching it, and we he was making these funny comments But at the time I was, I think I was, ya know, it was just shock and awe just like everybody else. Everybody was just so like, “Oh my god I can’t I can’t believe this is happening!” and nobody could really rationalize what any of these details were back then so it was more like, he was saying these things to me and I’m like, I can’t believe that these planes just blew these buildings, up are you kidding me? I’m really, like, so dead.

What made me want to tell the story? At first I was just wanted to be quiet because I knew something that I probably shouldn’t know and thought, “Man! What would happen if this got out?!” And then, I started, like, run into Alex Jones and get on the Internet. Then I’ve got, like, eight friends at work and we’d sit around and we were like conspiracy theorists because we don’t believe in the mainstream media, and like, I can’t believe this many people that actually think that something was wrong! I figured that everybody else had, like, no idea. So when I started to learn that people are starting to, like, want questions answered and they’re not getting answers and there’s specific reasons they’re not getting answers... and I thought, “Well like maybe its’ time for me to go ahead and tell my story” and, like, then I kind of know something I shouldn’t know....

Q - When you were watching the drills. You said, “Then the plane hit the first tower”. How did you know the plane hit the first tower?

They went right to CNN. Okay, so we have, in the bunker, okay, I also... It’s the funny thing, is because, the op order I saw for the exercise, now we were supporting Vigilant Guardian, which was the exercise that was going on and we weren’t directly involved, but we, from a support standpoint, you know, any deployments to the Middle East or anything that goes on in the Middle East goes through Central Command because that’s where there area of operation lies, the entire Middle East.

So we’re in the skip and you had to have a top secret, you had to have a green badge to get in there, and ya know, I worked there in the network shop, so I was always in and out of there, and so I was in there, like, working in there and I was in there talking with my girlfriend, and I wasn’t, I keep saying, I am not going to say his name...so... but I go in there and well, I go visit with him and he’s just a really interesting guy and there’s a lot of interesting people like, ya know, I got to meet lots of people at that command that were just fascinating... war heroes... so, ya know, the psychological operations guys, we call them psy ops, the ones who figure out all the leaflets, and ya know, how to broadcast music in Iraq to like, get the guys to come out and surrender. And they’re really good at what they do. Well, that’s where I saw the op orders for the exercise that showed the scenarios for the planes crashing into our building which didn’t explain to me, like why they were like, ramping up, ya know? They put big barricades around our building and like, there were sandbag machine gun posts, and there were guys upstairs with rockets. It was very interesting. I was like, Wow, ya know? Especially the classifications exercise is what really like spurred me, like, my questions, like, Why they classify a coded operation above the secret level? I mean yeah, you know, you don’t want everybody to know what we’re doing, but this was like, really, really hush-hush, like this exercise and like, nobody knew, like, and everybody’s asking me, like, Why do we have machine guns on the roof today? I’m like, I don’t know.

But, so, ya know, in the bunker, they’ve got, like, a bunch of, different, ya know, they monitor all kinds of stuff, and they’ve got the guys who monitor live satellite feed over to the Middle East, I mean, you can like, literally watch trucks and people walking around. I mean, like, people have no idea the sophistication of the equipment that we have. I mean they really don’t know. I’m like, Wow! That’s a truck! Holy cow, there’s like, two guys getting out of it! I mean, ya know, this is like, ya know, this is from like thousands of miles away, in Florida, ya know, we’re watching this! So anyways, the screen, the screen is like the part of the North American air space field, ya know, we put like, so we know, like, where all the F16s are, like that particular specific command to joint base, controlled by the Air Force, well the Air Force runs the base, Mac Dill Air Force base, we’ve got Air Force guys there. And then we’ve also got Army Navy and Marines and so the Air Force individuals, ya know, they’re air traffic controllers, they’re like the, the big air traffic controller guys, and they monitor, ya know, all the aero-space exercises that are going on here in the United States. And especially when they’ve got F16s or something out flying, ya know, they want to make sure that they know where they’re at, they’ve got ‘em on the radar, it’s not just us monitoring them, there’s other places like CUKA(?) they’re keeping track of these so, in case we lose one, we’ve got, like confirmations from, like, four different bases that know, “Hey, we actually lost a plane what happened?” Did they have to eject, is the guy alive? So they’ve got this, this big screen, and they show all this plane traffic and they start putting these fake blips on. And we’ve done this tons of times before, ya know, in the Army when you get, like, when you get like a screen and you like assimilate, like, well, this is where the enemies are right here, these red dots simulate the enemies on our front, and these are just like... We’re out on the back yard of our base and playing games, basically, but we, we visualize that there’s a real enemy and they put it on the screen and they show, like , okay, we kill these, these tanks over here, so, ya know, they do these exercises over and over again, these battle tactics and stuff.

So they start putting these blips on the grid showing these enemy aircraft, and then some of them were supposed to be hijacked planes and, you know, that was just very interesting to me and that was one of the things I caught, I mean like well, it would be really easy to put all these fake blips on the screen, because I think it’s Andrews Air Force base reciprocates that grid so the air traffic controllers at, like, ya know, for Washington so that, and New York, so that they know, like what planes commercial inbound and outbound and these are like exercise planes, ya know. They were all aware that we were like doing an exercise, the Air Force was doing a big exercise, or whatever, ya know, which is why these air traffic controllers were like, Is this real world or exercise, I mean, he asked that, ya know, because they, we, have to let them know if we’re gonna fly planes, ya know ,within the city limits or whatever.

So they don’t see these other planes and start calling people and say “Hey, ya know, there’s mysterious planes flyin’ around, You guys doing an exercise?” And ya know, it’s regulation that we let them know if a person’s doing an exercise, especially flying planes over airports and over major cities and stuff like that.

So it was just very interesting to see all these fake blips on the grid and then you crash planes and that way nobody knows, well ,which ones are real and which ones are fake, ya know? Like, cos they’re just on there, and we’ve got over-ride codes and we just put blips on the screen and they’re, we’re pretending that they’re either hijacked planes or they’re Russian MGs, ya know, and they’re headed for Denver and, ya know, whatever, whatever scenario they choose and it was just very ... At that point, it started making sense to me and I thought about that and it was like Wow. That’s a pretty good... that’s a pretty good setup for doing something, is the fact that you hide it in an exercise, where everybody thinks like, ya know, everybody’s like, ya know, “Calm down, NORAD’s, everybody’s like, we’re just doing this big exercise”.... And then, ya know, all of a sudden... planes crash.

Q - Some people are saying no planes hit the towers at all, so what makes you know? Why are you convinced that it did?

I’m not sure that it did. I mean, honestly, I saw the same thing everybody else saw. As soon as it happens, they flip all the big screens to CNN and FOX and ya know, we’re all watching it. At first, everybody’s starts getting this hustle and bustle, and everybody in the Command’s like, ya know, I’m like, in the bunker and I’m like, “What’s goin’ on?” Everybody’s gotten busy all of a sudden, ya know, and it looked like, it looked like NASA guys, ya know, like when Apollo 13 was going to crash? And people start going nuts and they and they flip the screen on, so somebody got a call and was like, “Holy shit, we just got attacked”! And so, then they, they put this on the screen and we’re, like, watching the re-play of the plane, ya know, and I didn’t see the first plane hit the tower.

I saw the second plane hit the tower. I watched it fly into it, but I mean, they they’ve got some pretty.... I’ve heard the theory that it was blue screen technology, and it holographic, and ya know, and I know that the military’s been working on holographic research for a long time. I saw an exercise where they wanted to, like, holographic a giant façade of Allah over Iraq to get the people of Iraq to surrender (laughter).

Q- When a plane crashes you can identify that plane always, even when it crashes and is on fire. And they did not, in any of the four crash sites, found any information that pinpoints the wreckage with any of the particular flights - not 175, 11, 93, or 77. Have you heard of anything?

No, but I know that, I mean ,also when I got out of the military I live in Cincinnati but I worked up in Dayton for Air Force research laboratories and they do all the, they do all the research on the development for space common Air Force, so I’ve seen, I’ve seen, like, all their stealth - the new stealth, that the public doesn’t even know about yet, that they’ve got, ya know. Like, everybody’s heard of UCAV, ya know, the Unmanned Aerial Vehicle, ya know, that flies around. You can drop bombs now, they’ve got a stealth version of that, it looks like a little Dorito, it’s like about the same size as a UCAV it’s got about a 15 foot wing span but it’s all black, it’s like, it’s completely stealth.

And it’s like, got an internal bay for like rockets or bombs or.... I mean it’s, it’s amazing. And I’ve actually seen the working prototype, like, in a lab and they turn the jet boosters on and they, like, play with it, ya know, with the controller and stuff. And honestly, my opinion is that they... Those were drone planes that were flown into the buildings because, that way they could have had internal explosives or something that ignited, that way, there was no wreckage left over, ya know? They were made out of a certain material that normal planes are not made out of .

But ya know, just like the place in Pennsylvania, I mean, I’ve seen pictures and ya know, everybody’s watched Loose Change and I mean, there’s no wreckage, ya know? It’s very bizarre. What? I don’t know. Nobody knows what that is and I mean, that’s the thing. Every other plane crash in history there’s been plane crashes unless they went in the ocean... and sometimes even then, we can find pieces.

I mean, there’s something else going, there’s something going on. I mean, the whole point of it was to shock and awe, I mean it was, like, the catalyst, required to uh, “the new Pearl Harbor”, ya know? It’s what they said in Operation Northwoods, ya know? And I’ve read that document pretty, pretty thoroughly a few times and ... this is very possible.. And then what really makes me mad is that, ya know, well, it don’t guess it makes me mad, but I find it humorous kind of, actually, that Bush gets on, gets on TV and is like, “We had no idea that... Who would have thought that they would’ve used planes?” And I’m like, “You jackass! I’ve been training for this stuff forever! I mean, I know!” He’s the puppet. Really. I think it’s pretty much unanimous that Bush is not running this country. I mean somebody else has to be running it. I mean he does not have the... I mean, he can’t even hold the book the right way when he’s reading to the kids. So... He’s definitely not very intelligent.

Q - Now that you know what you know and you were sent to Afghanistan... Did you still think in your mind that you were trying to get the Taliban, Al Qaeda, or Bin Laden?

That’s the thing. I flew into Kabul Airport, like, I mean literally when our C5 came in, we were escorted by jet. We were escorted by F15s and we were getting shot at, like, they were literally, like, pop-shotting up at the planes as we were trying to land because the Special Forces and the Air force para-rescue guys had just, had just cleared it, like, literally like, we were there like, I was there, like, five hours after like, the fire fight where they actually got everybody, like all the Taliban moved back out of the airport so that we could land planes, ya know. So, like, I’m on a, we’re on a big C5 and we’ve got all our vehicles underneath us, and I’m mean, I’m just like, “Oh God, ya know, this thing could fall out of the sky, because it doesn’t ...” I don’t know if you’ve ever seen a C-5 fly, but it looks like it’s not even moving, it’s so big. So it’s really easy to like shoot at, like a machine gun, ya know, and ya know, like, there were bullet holes on the sides of the plane. And of course they didn’t come all the way through, but and we’re all looking at them later and I’m like, “Holy cow, we’re getting shot at!”

But, yeah, I thought we were going to Afghanistan to hunt down Bin Laden. I’m helping in the search to hunt down Bin Laden. No. Not the case. Actually, I actually was providing communications for special ops guys and then I was pulling roving guard, guarding the pipeline.

Q - Guarding the pipeline for oil for United States... corporate, right?

That’s right. A lot of people don’t know about the pipeline. A lot of people, when I talk about that are like, “What are you talking about?” And I’m like, “Dude, there’s a huge... like, the Alaskan pipeline, that comes all the way through Afghanistan, like down in the Gulf, it comes through Pakistan...” I don’t know where all it goes, honestly I haven’t really found a whole lot on it, but... I was, I had to pull shifts, like every two or three days they’d..... I’ve have to pull a six hour rotation, on top of a humvica(?) driving around pieces, these sections of this pipeline to make sure that, ya know, like, guys weren’t going to come blow it up. And ya know, then, that’s when I started thinking, I’m like, I’m like, well, “What am I here for man? I’m not protecting people, I’m protecting oil!” Ya know, who wants to get shot for that? They give you guys awards, ya know, and I’m just like, “For what? Ya know, what did we do? We protected someone’s money. Ya know, somebody’s investment.”

Q - So when you were over there for eight months, right? So did you, during that eight months, figure out 9/11 and that Bin Laden was a fraud and all that? Or did it take you longer than that?

No it took me longer than that. I think, I think, like, most Americans don’t want to believe that. I didn’t want to believe it. Especially since I was part of the system, ya know, at the time? So I really was, ya know, it took at least... When I came back and I moved up here to Ohio and then after I started, like, running it through in my mind, I’m just like, just trying to replay stuff, ya know, it just never really.. None of it really made sense. And that’s when I started doing research on the Internet and I found, ya know, Alex Jones, and they have all this...Then, like, I found, there’s like so many people, that are just like ... the thing is, they’re not unified in any way, ya know? There’s like thirty sites, that I know of, that people are all over the place, I mean, that’s the thing that’s...

There’s a war going on. And it’s a war for people’s consciousness. And the very first thing you’ll hear anybody say when they want to, when they want to be victorious over a people, you know, “You need to divide and conquer,” ya know? We’ve heard that forever, “Divide and conquer, divide and conquer” and that’s exactly what they’ve done. They’ve segregated the people of the United States - and of the world, by race, religion, I mean, by social status, by how much money they make. I mean, everything is meant to keep us from being like a whole. And so, ya know, that’s the thing. That’s the reason why we’re still in the situation that we’re in, because we haven’t got the power, as a unity, to, like figure out what’s going on and to demand the answers, ya know? So, that’s, that’s the thing.

I always think to myself, ya know, like, What can I do? I’ve been asked to go speak at Northern Kentucky University in the next few weeks and I’ll go down there and talk to the people. And I’m speaking to 50 or 60 people, I guess, and I’m going to tell them the story and I’m not telling the people that the government did 9/11. I’m going to tell them that, “You do the research for yourself,” because that’s really only the freedom we have, you know, to speak for ourselves and figure out what’s going on here, ya know?

I know, you know, people are going to, I mean ... first off... I’m a soldier. I’m highly trained. And I have, I can still carry weapons. I’m to the point where, like, I’m not scared. I like, have a bumper sticker that says: “I love my country. It’s the government that scares me.” I trust nobody in uniform at all anymore, I mean none anymore, like, not at all unless they’re like, military, Army guys when I see the guys come back and they’re giving the new badge, I want to let you know the fact that I appreciate that I don’t want to ruin that for them.

Q - I know that a passenger plane did not hit that Pentagon. I would swear to it, because I have studied every picture, ya know?

Yeah, There was definitely not a plane. And I actually got a, I got a verbal confirmation from one of my friends, Sgt. Worthington(?) soldiers, and I asked him if a plane hit the Pentagon? And I called my buddy, I was, like, Jeez. I wanted to make sure he’s okay. And I talked to one of the soldiers and I was, like, “Man, are you guys all right?” and he’s like, “Yeah, we’re fine, “ and I was like, “Where’d the plane hit?” and he’s like, he couldn’t see a plane. And I’m like, “What?” And he said, “Yeah, I can’t talk about it. But I’ll have Sgt. Worthington(?) call ya.”

So you know, then Sgt. Worthington(?) calls me back and we were on a STU phone , we weren’t on a commercial line, we were on a secret STU, which is our classified phone, and uh, he’s like,” I can’t talk about this.” And I’m like, “We’re on a secure line, man,” and he’s like, “I still can’t talk about this.” And I was like, “Okay.” And then he got shipped over to Qatar, in Bahrain, I guess, or wherever, whatever base is over there.

Q - Could it have been a missile?

I think it was probably, I thought it, personally, I thought it would be a cruise missile. They’re the easiest things to fly, um, they are very accurate, very accurate. I mean, you could fly them right through the streets, you know, they’re only like, about twice as big as a snowboard. I mean like, they’re not very big missiles at all and when the wings pop out, you could just guide that thing, you could guide that thing right through an alley. I mean, just the thing that bothered me is the wreckage, ya know? There’s... I mean, there wasn’t enough plane there. An aluminum plane couldn’t have done that much damage to that building, there’d have been no way.

Q - I have read that a commercial jet, or any jet actually, does not vaporize into thin air.

No.

Q - So a plane would still be there, right? Even if it crashed and exploded into flames, right?

Yeah. You can’t incinerate metal. You’d have to have like, significantly high temperatures. It’s ridiculous, like the fact that these, these, these aircraft just disintegrated is... beyond me. There would be pieces of it, even if they fell down in the towers, there would have been wreckage. You know, you would have found big pieces, of it, ya know. There’s no way, I mean, nobody... you can’t vaporize all of it. Some pieces, I mean you could take all the pieces and try to assemble the plane back, but you’d be missing some pieces, obviously, because some of it does obliterate, it’d be so small you couldn’t find it, but not all of it. That’s just... It’s too, too perfect, I mean, that’s the whole problem with this. They made it look... too good, ya know?

When I talk to people I tell them, like you know what? You can have whatever theory you want about what brought the towers down ... Explosives, the planes, the pancake theory, I don’t care, I was like, I want to know: Why did building 7 fall? I want to know where is the plane that hit the Pentagon? You show me those 2 things and I’ll shut up. I will shut up and never talk about it again.

Building 7 - Larry Silverstein - and that’s the thing. They brought all the rest of those buildings down, too. A lot of people don’t know that. He owned the whole complex. And so, they brought it down because it had pretty heavy damage from the towers falling on them, but they could have re-builded [sic] them. From where they were. I mean, the structure was still there. I mean, they were in bad shape but they could have been rebuilt, but when you got a... you got a multi-billion dollar insurance policy, it’s easier just to break everything down and start from scratch.

That’s my thing. Like well, what well, what if the planes did hit the towers? I mean, Well, Silverstein still had to know about it because then he had demolitions bring his building down just as well, it’s like, we lost two, we might as well lose all seven of them. It doesn’t make any sense to me. Especially once I talked to my demolitions friend, I was like, that’s the thing. Okay, well, the buildings were on fire. Building 7 was on fire. Okay, so you expect the American people to believe that you went into a building - on fire - and strategically planned probably one of the most perfectly done controlled demolitions in the entire history - in a matter of hours - in a burning building? That doesn’t happen! That stuff takes like weeks and weeks to plan like the joists have got to be... and the holes have got to be drilled perfectly, in certain places and all wires have got to be run and the timing’s got to be perfect I mean ....there’s too much sophistication that goes behind something like that to believe that it happened in a matter of hours in a burning building.

Q - You had written that you had worked a bit with explosives? So you know you could not take a 47 story building down without great work?

C4, yeah. Oh yeah. Especially for the towers, if it was indeed, it was controlled demolition, that would have been a team of people, I mean it would have taken about 10 or 15, it would have taken a lot of people and in my opinion, a significant amount of time, maybe a month, in and out of there and just so many... I mean if you have seen them take the building apart, you know, I mean, like, show you the steel framing, and how it was built, it was so complex. There was just so many places that explosives...that had to be planted.

Q - So you think it could have take up to a month? It could not have taken a day?

No way. I don’t think they could have done it that day. No way. No way at all, no.

Q - Did you hear the President say the explosives were put in the buildings by a terrorist?

No. I didn’t hear that. Yeah. I figured that would happen eventually. The terrorists got in! [laughter] Most all of our ... Ya know, and what are we paying the military intelligence for? What are we paying the CIA for? This is what you guys job is - You believe like one guy or two guys came in - What? As janitors? Like, what the Fuck?!

A lot of this is common sense stuff. You don’t have to be an intelligent professor. You don’t have to be, you don’t have to know physics. You can look at it and just go, Well, what... Did building 7 fall? It was barely on fire. Well, ya know, people just... I don’t think people want to know. I get that a lot. When people I try to talk to... they don’t care, they don’t want to know, they don’t want to believe that. They would rather believe that everything’s fine, and the government’s our friend, and they’re taking care of us. And it’s totally not... It’s addictive stuff, man. It’s totally not what’s going on.

Q - Back to Afghanistan. You must have, when you were in Afghanistan... Were you exposed to Depleted Uranium?

No, not at all. But they... Anytime we deploy the armor, the armored divisions for the Abrams tanks and the Howitzers over to other countries, they use Depleted Uranium. And it’s not just... A lot of people think well, the DU is just from bomb flashes. No no no no. The DU comes from rounds used in a lot of the tank rounds like the 101s and the 150 millimeters, those guys are the ones that are using the DU rounds, especially the Howitzers...and they can put those things like 8 miles, down range, and like that’s the thing - they do great, I mean, they do what they’re intended to do. The bad thing is... it makes the land almost inhabitable, you know, right in that spot. You can poison water supplies that way...

Iraq’s the same way. I mean, they’ve got junk yards with old tanks and stuff. And these guys are working around it and the rads are off the chart! These guys are, like, walking around with these old tanks, they’re like, selling scrap metal off old tanks from the Gulf War. But, like, when we deploy our tanks’ battalions, the Abrams specifically has depleted uranium rounds that they use and they are sabot depleted uranium so they have like a casing that, that inside, inside the Abrams, they’ve got a holding bay for the rounds. And when you load them into the gun there’s like a real thick, I don’t know if it’s plastic or if it’s porcelain, there’s a casing over the actual DU head. And when it comes out of the barrel it sheds that casing, and then it’s Depleted Uranium, it’s just, like, a spike. And it does... The damage is tremendous. They do their job. I mean, it can... You can kill anything, but you ruin the land, because of the radiation.

Q - Going back now. When you were with NORAD what was your job? [Note: I had meant to say Central Command, which is at Mac Dill AFB]

NORAD is based in, I think, Colorado. But, we were watching one of the screens. It’s like a live, it’s like a live feed. It’s piped in from NORAD and it’s a live feed of the aerospace grid of the United States, so we can, so the air traffic controllers at Central Command could, like, watch planes fly patterns and this kind of stuff, and make sure that nobody went down. And it was a controlled exercise - like most exercises that the military does, it was controlled, so we were...so that wasn’t anything that was bizarre - the fact that they, you know, that because we saw that grid all the time. But my job for Central Command was to provide communications, so I worked in the network shop there and people had computer problems. I’d go out and fix their computer problems, but.. I just wandered around...

Q - So it [his job] actually wasn’t anything to do with the ops, but you happened to see it because you were there?

I happened to go in there, yeah. And of course, the op order was out in the psy ops guys, and I was peeking over the first page of it, you know, it was, like, opened to, a page. You know, I didn’t like take it out and read it. But it was a top secret document, and it was open to like, page 4, and that’s when it was talking about the scenarios for the planes hitting the Pentagon, the White House, Sears tower was one of them, a building in Dallas was one of them, some place in California, I don’t remember, some power station. So that, I mean, the scenarios were proposed on this op order, the document, this operational order they had had. And I looked at it and I was, like, “Wow. That’s crazy!” And then, like, none of that even struck me as peculiar, until like, later, when I’m, like later going, Holy shit! I read that document! I wish I would have stole it. That would have been the greatest thing I’d ever have done, if I had taken that document. ‘Cause then I could have showed that. Like, Hey, Dude, everybody knew! I did see it, though and I was like, Wow, I wished I’d have grabbed that document! You know, I thought about that. But at the time it didn’t, it didn’t even occur to me. I was so busy with the fact that, you know, what else are they going to do? Is this going to be a nuclear war now?

It really did change things. And I don’t think... We’re being spoon-ally [?] conditioned and the people aren’t really aware of what’s going on and just, just logically looking at stuff. I think as long as people have the .... The most depressed people are the ones who have the illusion that they’re free. I think it was Goethe said that one the best. And that’s exactly what it is. Ya know, everybody thinks things are fine and they don’t care.... Until it affects them directly.

But ya know, I think, I think eventually good will come out of this. I think that we will finally remember why we’re Americans and what this country was founded on, ya know? The truths and the beliefs that this country was founded on will come back. But, ya know, in order to get there we’ll have to go through these times that we are in right now. And that’s, that’s what kills me the most, is that these other countries, like, they despise Americans, they hate us. Because we’re represented by our government. And it’s our government that has given us a bad impression, ya know? They are representing the economics of this country, that’s what they’re doing. That’s all it’s about.