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Kerry Wins If All Legal Votes Counted in Ohio!

by : Cheryl Guttman
Monday November 8, 2004 - 23:47
14 comments

Yes you read that right, Kerry WINS if all legal votes are counted. Provisionals will count even though they are counted late and if the "spoiled" ballots can be won either by a Dem challenge (which they have decided against but maybe can be pressured on) or a citizen lawsuit(probably one or more people from Ohio) to count these ballots, then Kerry can WIN, even though he conceded!

If the Republicans seemed to lose but they knew that all the legal votes were not counted you better believe that they would be screaming at the top of their lungs to have all legal votes counted. How can we Democrats do any less—especially after 2000? Even if Republicans would not accept a Kerry win after Kerry conceded, and with Congress in the hands of the Republican, Kerry couldn’t "do" anything, at least the courts—including the Supreme Court—would be safe and we wouldn’t have the irresponsible tax cuts, ruinous wars, destruction of environment, rights, social security, etc. This is worth fighting for even if we have to endure scorn!

Evidence of fraud (some say massive) is coming in but simple "spoilage" where many legal votes were not counted because of undervotes or overvotes (many involving the famous "hanging chads") could—if counted—be added to the total Kerry will get when provisional votes are counted—and the provisional ballots will definitely be counted in a week.

As a result Kerry could theoretically win Ohio and therefore the presidency even though he has conceded. There are precedents for candidates winning after conceding. Greg Palast—the investigative reporter who broke the Florida disenfranchisement scandal in 2000—has made a convincing case that counting spoiled legal ballots plus provisional legal ballots equals Kerry victory. http://www.tompaine.com/articles/ke...

Can Dems change their mind about contesting the spoiled ballots and if not can anyone else sue to have these counted?

To pressure Dems to ask for recount or sue to count these votes, this is form that can be used http://www.johnkerry.com/forms/elec... and these are Ohio Dem Party contacts dennis@ohiodems.org ; dan@ohiodems.org ; hanna@ohiodems.org

Does anyone else have standing to sue? In Florida, Floridians who felt disenfranchised sued, can Ohio citizens sue on this basis?

The horrible thing is that the Republicans have convinced the American people that hand counting is suspect and that making sure votes that have been spoiled are legal votes by observing them is some sort of awful joke that must never be repeated. This is the way disputed elections are counted all around the world—Karzai had to wait a month to be elected as president to most people’s satisfaction but in the US if the winner isn’t picked right away, people start screaming (especially the "winning" side and Republicans are very good at outshouting everyone else), no matter how much is in doubt or how important the results are to the nation.

There is also emerging evidence of voter fraud and disenfranchisement but I don’t know if any of that can be counted to actually overturn an election—as we saw in 2000.

However, if legal votes were not counted and can still be counted someone must be able to sue to make sure this happens! Can someone let me know if anything is being done about this?

Take care,
Cheryl Guttman



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> Kerry Wins If All Legal Votes Counted in Ohio!
Tuesday November 9 - 05:34 - Posted by e7ea8128a99af72d...

Yeah, Kerry would win if all the spoiled votes and provisional votes all voted for Kerry. Highly improbable.




> Kerry Wins If All Legal Votes Counted in Ohio!
Tuesday November 9 - 05:40 - Posted by 153a01df06e9fcde...

You may be right, but all the ballots should be counted and all the votes must count!!! I agree that if the tables were turmed, the Republicans would definitely want all the votes counted and they would take legal action, too!!



> Kerry Wins If All Legal Votes Counted in Ohio!
Tuesday November 9 - 07:30 - Posted by 2fabafcadffeb873...

I think they should be fought, regardless of party. All votes would have to count and Kerry would have to win the majority.




> Kerry Wins If All Legal Votes Counted in Ohio!
Tuesday November 9 - 07:51 - Posted by 1b5440ca8d517d28...

In many of the precincts in Cuyahoga County Ohio, there are more votes than voters. Take a look at these links:

http://pages.ivillage.com/americans...

http://boe.cuyahogacounty.us/BOE/re...




> Kerry Wins If All Legal Votes Counted in Ohio!
Tuesday November 9 - 14:20 - Posted by ff16593820ccc826...

Interesting that the claim is that Kerry wins if "all legal votes" are counted, then the author goes on to pin her hopes on overvotes and undervotes. By definition, undervotes and overvotes ARE NOT legal ballots. They’re called "spoiled ballots" for a reason. If the voter does not clearly make a choice or votes for more than one candidate, the ballot is invalid, by law.




> Kerry Wins If All Legal Votes Counted in Ohio!
Tuesday November 9 - 19:05 - Posted by 81f6b82419d90f37...

This from Cam Kerry via Dick Bell:

Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2004 10:11:02 -0500

I am grateful to the many people who have contacted me to express their deep concern about questions of miscounting, fraud, vote suppression, and other problems on election day, especially in Florida and Ohio. Their concern reflects how much people care about the outcome of this election.

I want to you to know we are not ignoring it. Election protection lawyers are still on the job in Ohio and Florida and in DC making sure all the votes are counted accurately. I have been conferring with lawyers involved and have made them aware of the information and concerns people have given me. Even if the facts don’t provide a basis to change the outcome, the information will inform the continuing effort to protect the integrity of our elections.

If you have specific factual information about voting problems that could be helpful to the lawyers doing their job, please send it to vri@dnc.org rather than to me.

The election protection effort has been important to me personally, and I am proud of the 17,000 lawyers around the country who helped. It’s obvious that we have a way to go still, but their efforts helped make a difference. Their work goes on.

Thank you,
Cam Kerry




> Kerry Wins If All Legal Votes Counted in Ohio!
Thursday November 11 - 10:44 - Posted by 1122a42601ceb4e3...

Fuck the South. Fuck ’em. We should have let them go when they wanted to leave. But no, we had to kill half a million people so they’d stay part of our special Union. Fighting for the right to keep slaves - yeah, those are states we want to keep.

And now what do we get? We’re the fucking Arrogant Northeast Liberal Elite? How about this for arrogant: the South is the Real America? The Authentic America. Really?

Cause we fucking founded this country, assholes. Those Founding Fathers you keep going on and on about? All that bullshit about what you think they meant by the Second Amendment giving you the right to keep your assault weapons in the glove compartment because you didn’t bother to read the first half of the fucking sentence? Who do you think those wig-wearing lacy-shirt sporting revolutionaries were? They were fucking blue-staters, dickhead. Boston? Philadelphia? New York? Hello? Think there might be a reason all the fucking monuments are up here in our backyard?

No, No. Get the fuck out. We’re not letting you visit the Liberty Bell and fucking Plymouth Rock anymore until you get over your real American selves and start respecting those other nine amendments. Who do you think those fucking stripes on the flag are for? Nine are for fucking blue states. And it would be 10 if those Vermonters had gotten their fucking Subarus together and broken off from New York a little earlier. Get it? We started this shit, so don’t get all uppity about how real you are you Johnny-come-lately "Oooooh I’ve been a state for almost a hundred years" dickheads. Fuck off.

Arrogant? You wanna talk about us Northeasterners being fucking arrogant? What’s more American than arrogance? Hmmm? Maybe horsies? I don’t think so. Arrogance is the fucking cornerstone of what it means to be American. And I wouldn’t be so fucking arrogant if I wasn’t paying for your fucking bridges, bitch.

All those Federal taxes you love to hate? It all comes from us and goes to you, so shut up and enjoy your fucking Tennessee Valley Authority electricity and your fancy highways that we paid for. And the next time Florida gets hit by a hurricane you can come crying to us if you want to, but you’re the ones who built on a fucking swamp. "Let the Spanish keep it, it’s a shithole," we said, but you had to have your fucking orange juice.

The next dickwad who says, "It’s your money, not the government’s money" is gonna get their ass kicked. Nine of the ten states that get the most federal fucking dollars and pay the least... can you guess? Go on, guess. That’s right, motherfucker, they’re red states. And eight of the ten states that receive the least and pay the most? It’s too easy, asshole, they’re blue states. It’s not your money, assholes, it’s fucking our money. What was that Real American Value you were spouting a minute ago? Self reliance? Try this for self reliance: buy your own fucking stop signs, assholes.

Let’s talk about those values for a fucking minute. You and your Southern values can bite my ass because the blue states got the values over you fucking Real Americans every day of the goddamn week. Which state do you think has the lowest divorce rate you marriage-hyping dickwads? Well? Can you guess? It’s fucking Massachusetts, the fucking center of the gay marriage universe. Yes, that’s right, the state you love to tie around the neck of anyone to the left of Strom Thurmond has the lowest divorce rate in the fucking nation. Think that’s just some aberration? How about this: 9 of the 10 lowest divorce rates are fucking blue states, asshole, and most are in the Northeast, where our values suck so bad. And where are the highest divorce rates? Care to fucking guess? 10 of the top 10 are fucking red-ass we’re-so-fucking-moral states. And while Nevada is the worst, the Bible Belt is doing its fucking part.

But two guys making out is going to fucking ruin marriage for you? Yeah? Seems like you’re ruining it pretty well on your own, you little bastards. Oh, but that’s ok because you go to church, right? I mean you do, right? Cause we fucking get to hear about it every goddamn year at election time. Yes, we’re fascinated by how you get up every Sunday morning and sing, and then you’re fucking towers of moral superiority. Yeah, that’s a workable formula. Maybe us fucking Northerners don’t talk about religion as much as you because we’re not so busy sinning, hmmm? Ever think of that, you self-righteous assholes? No, you’re too busy erecting giant stone tablets of the Ten Commandments in buildings paid for by the fucking Northeast Liberal Elite. And who has the highest murder rates in the nation? It ain’t us up here in the North, assholes.

Well this gravy train is fucking over. Take your liberal-bashing, federal-tax-leaching, confederate-flag-waving, holier-than-thou, hypocritical bullshit and shove it up your ass.

And no, you can’t have your fucking convention in New York next time. Fuck off.

contact



> Kerry Wins If All Legal Votes Counted in Ohio!
Friday November 26 - 21:55 - Posted by 8282596d4524a2b5...

And you wonder why someone who has to use filthy language isn’t in the mainstream. And FYI the south didn’t fight a war to keep slaves. You idiot. The average soldier who fought the stupid war didn’t own any slaves. It did not make any differnce to them. But letting some big feeling, stuffy, arrogant, fool from the north tell them what to do made them fight. By the way the union lost twice the men the south did which means we could still kick your ass.



> Kerry Wins If All Legal Votes Counted in Ohio!
Saturday November 27 - 00:03 - Posted by 1122a42601ceb4e3...

You must have grown up in the South, they probably do not teach the history of who was in power in the South and who directed the show there and how the war most certainly was fought over the slave issue. This is not uncommon that an area where a hugely crimminal historical event is covered up in the education system...Japan never talks about its bloody attack on Manchuria, etc. and it is not taught in school.
Your other point that the common soldiers did not own slaves...look today at the soldiers in Iraq, they don’t own oil companies, or weapons manufacturing business, etc., yet there they are fighting for the oil barons and the weapons pushers, its the same thing, war is always fought for the good of those who are profiting behind the guise of a principle, the "common people" pay the price for the whole thing while the elite make all the money and get all of the benefit while taking none of the risk.



> Kerry Wins If All Legal Votes Counted in Ohio!
Friday November 12 - 02:53 - Posted by 6d558ee57d2f4ebe...

I sure hope that if the election is somewhat rigged, that Kerry will retract his consession speech.




> Kerry Wins If All Legal Votes Counted in Ohio!
Saturday November 13 - 19:17 - Posted by 1813b7e4dd1c7685...

I seriously wonder if Kerry really wanted to win after all. After all he had front row seats at the debates and probably heard Bush’s agenda to lower tax cuts the best. Of course we all know how rich he and his wife are. What about Edwards. We all heard how rich he is too. The whole lot of them are stinking like rotten eggs. If Ralph Nader gets footed the bills to recount you better believe I’ll donante all the peanuts I earned trying to get Kerry Edwards elected. Yes one of the sorry suckers I was, working for what I thought was a just and moral cause. All summer standing on the street, feeling like a begger, asking for dontations, asking for money to elect Kerry. Getting called a baby killer, a cunt, whore, bitch and every other name in the book. Thinking I was doing what is "moral"?
I knew this was coming. I watched EWTN, 700 club. I stood outside the state fair. The number one reason they all said to vote for BUsh. "I’m against abortion and gay marriage" Seriously sounding like brainwashed drones. Last April people put out signs in my neighborhood. "I support Traditional marriage" PLEEASE I saw it coming 500 miles away. Kerry and Edwards let this election just slip through our fingertips. How often did they ever discuss environmental issues? I know they didn’t mention it in my state, because I saw it live. Why did they mutter so much that every vote will be counted? and they are not? Whether we win or not. Our government is a farce, they’re playing us like a fiddle, playing with our minds I looked at Kerry and Edwards as the David that stood up to Goliath. That we were good standing up to the face of evil. But now we have no David. Our David now remains in the hands of a few freedom fighters without a clue. I have bouts of remorse for the people who voted for Bush. That if we ridded him of office, the war would end, that healthcare would be available, that we’d restore education. Respect in the world. What was it oh yeah ENVIRONMENT. What about death penalty as a sin. Maybe the faith based initiates gave presendence to Christs words. Don’t give me the lie that killing criminals is just. I have a say. I"m a victim of murder. A man who vitiously attacked and murdered my sisters sits in a jail in San Quentin. I seriously debated within myself long before Bush came along pressing for his death. I mustered up all my courage to call the prison. The man said that he would never be freed. He called Death row "condemend row"? I finally decided within my heart that pursuing his death was just as bad as him killing my sisters. It was a feeling. It was "gut check time" (one of Kerry’s silly phrases in the debates).
So after feeling completed trampled on by God after the election, due to Bush supporters overwhelming sweep of moral value voters, right on EWTN’s programs they were preaching the justification of death penalty from the BIBLE>! I found an article that MOTHER THERESA went to San Quentin in 1987. Seven years after my sisters murder. That means she blessed the killer. She brought the prisoners on death row medals and told the guards that if you kill these men, you are hurting GOD. I’m not trying to say that abortion is good either. Of course there’s the same debate over whether the death of the unborn is as important over the death of a desperate woman, desparate in poverty, fear or serious pressure from family, boyfriend, whatever. what scares me the most is that the church is now preaching amoral values and getting away with it.

Heck I think I could probably write a book on taking back America too. All the way back to the United States of Canada.



> Kerry Wins If All Legal Votes Counted in Ohio!
Wednesday November 17 - 02:14 - Posted by 5df79ea4df3c9973...

I am certain that, if Kerry had won this election, not ONE Democrat would be whining, "LET’S COUNT ALL THE VOTES IN OHIO AGAIN!" You are crying "foul" because Kerry lost, plain and simple!




> Kerry Wins If All Legal Votes Counted in Ohio!
Friday November 19 - 03:42 - Posted by 398c41725fba931e...

...but the republicans would, and democrats should. Whats right is right, every vote should be counted!



> Kerry Wins If All Legal Votes Counted in Ohio!
Friday November 26 - 21:50 - Posted by 7b94d574049deaf3...

Cheryl you lost. Live with it. Take a pill, a hot bath, and read a good liberal book that reveals what evil people the Republicans are. Try again in 08. Maybe you guys can register cats and dogs next time.







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