> Secret Government Informants Posting On This Topic
30 December 2004, 14:19
For zen...
Look, I respect everyone’s opinion, regardless of how inane and moronic I think it is. But let’s not put more credence in your own thought simply because you feel you can justify it as your own due to your lack of political allegiance to either the right or left. This simply is not valid. For your own clarification, the American media is as liberal as it gets...every story is colored with anti-republican propoganda (with a few exceptions). Personally, I have no interest in the media or its agenda...I disagree with most every "human interest story" they peddle as being newsworthy. Why are you so vocally against the "murders and atrocities" of the US government, but not at all interested in retribution for the murders and atrocities performed by, say, the Iraqi government prior to ’02? This is where my confusion stems from...many of you folks rail simply for the sake of railing against the US, and it frustrates those of us who love our country and take our role in the world seriously. Yes, it is terrible that innocent people have to die, but this is a fact of life and has been since the beginning of time. How many innocent Americans died during our fight for independence? This is the cost of freedom. How many of those 17,000+ dead Iraqis have been killed by suicide bombers and insurgents? To that statement, you will undoubtedly say that this fact is blown out of proportion by the US propoganda machine. Again, this is a cause of great frustration, because it is a double-standard the liberals and utopians have. Why is what the Pentagon says all lies but what is said by groups like the Red Cross and United Nations to be taken at face value? All the "research" you all say you do to produce your own free thoughts, where does this come from? For the most part, every thing you use to base your theory on is coming from one source or another. So why, then, when I make a series of statements based on my reality are you so quick to dismiss it as "Media zombification" but whatever you say is considered "free thinking"? Simply because our sources are different? Killing is not killing, my friend....we are attempting to foster democracy, free will and peace to a people who have admittedly long suffered under a despotic leader. The several thousand people who don’t want this to happen all have something to lose, a little thing we call power. But by-and-large, the Iraqi people are happy to have had us depose Saddam. True, they also would like us to leave, but they don’t understand what we’ve learned elsewhere, that this is not possible if they are to sustain themselves as they would like. As easy as it is to dismiss the US agenda as being an oil-driven craze by a war-mongering nation, I ask you this simple question: where is the proof? It is VERY clear that the United Nations, which shares your ideologic belief that what the US is doing is wrong, long had been manipulated by Iraq for their own personal gains (via Oil For Food)...this cannot be debated. It is VERY clear that the French and Germans, the two most vocal opponents to US action on Iraq also, coincidentally were the nations responsible for the highest percentage of military imports (breaking international law, I should add) and government contracts with Iraq. Why are these things swept under the rug? People talk of Haliburton and how they have gotten so many contracts to help rebuild Iraq, well, I tell you that Haliburton is the largest US contractor for that type of work, so who would you expect to get the most contracts??? It is a fallacy to say that the US wants to dominate the world’s oil market...there is just no proof to this whatsoever. What we do want to do, I am sure, is not allow a tyrant to do the same.
You speak of the revote in Ukraine being minimalized, I ask you why would this happen? WHO IN AMERICA’S GENERAL PUBLIC CARES ABOUT THIS??? Why would it dominate our airwaves? It’s not like you can’t find news on it....go to www.drudgereport.com....every single day there is a top-billed story regarding that re-vote....and this is a very right-wing website. Yeah, the 6 o’clock news doesn’t carry any info on it, but that’s because they want veiwers and won’t get them by showing regurgitated highlights of a re-election occuring 4,000 miles away in a part of the world that loathes us.
Reality is 90% perception is a little thing I like to always say when having these types of discussions. What you perceive as being factual is going to be different from me, and what I perceive as real is going to differ with the next guy, etc. We can all argue until we are blue in the face about who’s right and wrong, and that’s what makes sites like this valuable, but all that I ask is that those of you so quick to dismiss the US and our actions as being self-serving, greedy and torturous take a long look at the facts and the history. What is it worth to secure the world for our children and their children? Even beyond that, those children in Afghanistan who have been fostered to hate us and taught to murder us now may have a chance to think for themselves. The children in Iraq who had no chance but to suffer in anonymity as those in positions of power grew more and more wealthy while ruling under an iron fist now may be able to dream of making a difference in their own society. These things take time and tough decisions and, most importantly, sacrifice. America has NEVER taken over and occupied another country over the long term....not once. America does not threaten its neighbors with violence and domination if they do not comply with our way of life. America does not interfere with the political processes of other democratic countries. Americans do not burn efiges in the streets of other world leaders and chant anti-nation slogans of other countries. Americans do not strap bombs to themselves and murder innocent people in an attempt to make their voices heard. Americans do not sequester their women and have sexual relations with teenage boys. America does not use chemical weapons on any people under any circumstance, as they are inhumane and torturous. America does not make any decisions internally without the majority approval of a 500+ person body of ELECTED officials signing off on it. Why, then is George Bush such a monster and America such a proven evil entity? All I ask is for a little bit of sanity and restraint to be used. Earthquakes have happened for millions of years. More people will die as more people inhabit more places on the planet. GWB is just another man in a position of power. He is not the incarnation of Satan and he is not some greedy oil-driven monster. He is simply trying to undo all that previous administrations have done to compromise our national security.
For zen...
Look, I respect everyone’s opinion, regardless of how inane and moronic I think it is. But let’s not put more credence in your own thought simply because you feel you can justify it as your own due to your lack of political allegiance to either the right or left. This simply is not valid. For your own clarification, the American media is as liberal as it gets...every story is colored with anti-republican propoganda (with a few exceptions). Personally, I have no interest in the media or its agenda...I disagree with most every "human interest story" they peddle as being newsworthy. Why are you so vocally against the "murders and atrocities" of the US government, but not at all interested in retribution for the murders and atrocities performed by, say, the Iraqi government prior to ’02? This is where my confusion stems from...many of you folks rail simply for the sake of railing against the US, and it frustrates those of us who love our country and take our role in the world seriously. Yes, it is terrible that innocent people have to die, but this is a fact of life and has been since the beginning of time. How many innocent Americans died during our fight for independence? This is the cost of freedom. How many of those 17,000+ dead Iraqis have been killed by suicide bombers and insurgents? To that statement, you will undoubtedly say that this fact is blown out of proportion by the US propoganda machine. Again, this is a cause of great frustration, because it is a double-standard the liberals and utopians have. Why is what the Pentagon says all lies but what is said by groups like the Red Cross and United Nations to be taken at face value? All the "research" you all say you do to produce your own free thoughts, where does this come from? For the most part, every thing you use to base your theory on is coming from one source or another. So why, then, when I make a series of statements based on my reality are you so quick to dismiss it as "Media zombification" but whatever you say is considered "free thinking"? Simply because our sources are different? Killing is not killing, my friend....we are attempting to foster democracy, free will and peace to a people who have admittedly long suffered under a despotic leader. The several thousand people who don’t want this to happen all have something to lose, a little thing we call power. But by-and-large, the Iraqi people are happy to have had us depose Saddam. True, they also would like us to leave, but they don’t understand what we’ve learned elsewhere, that this is not possible if they are to sustain themselves as they would like. As easy as it is to dismiss the US agenda as being an oil-driven craze by a war-mongering nation, I ask you this simple question: where is the proof? It is VERY clear that the United Nations, which shares your ideologic belief that what the US is doing is wrong, long had been manipulated by Iraq for their own personal gains (via Oil For Food)...this cannot be debated. It is VERY clear that the French and Germans, the two most vocal opponents to US action on Iraq also, coincidentally were the nations responsible for the highest percentage of military imports (breaking international law, I should add) and government contracts with Iraq. Why are these things swept under the rug? People talk of Haliburton and how they have gotten so many contracts to help rebuild Iraq, well, I tell you that Haliburton is the largest US contractor for that type of work, so who would you expect to get the most contracts??? It is a fallacy to say that the US wants to dominate the world’s oil market...there is just no proof to this whatsoever. What we do want to do, I am sure, is not allow a tyrant to do the same.
You speak of the revote in Ukraine being minimalized, I ask you why would this happen? WHO IN AMERICA’S GENERAL PUBLIC CARES ABOUT THIS??? Why would it dominate our airwaves? It’s not like you can’t find news on it....go to www.drudgereport.com....every single day there is a top-billed story regarding that re-vote....and this is a very right-wing website. Yeah, the 6 o’clock news doesn’t carry any info on it, but that’s because they want veiwers and won’t get them by showing regurgitated highlights of a re-election occuring 4,000 miles away in a part of the world that loathes us.
Reality is 90% perception is a little thing I like to always say when having these types of discussions. What you perceive as being factual is going to be different from me, and what I perceive as real is going to differ with the next guy, etc. We can all argue until we are blue in the face about who’s right and wrong, and that’s what makes sites like this valuable, but all that I ask is that those of you so quick to dismiss the US and our actions as being self-serving, greedy and torturous take a long look at the facts and the history. What is it worth to secure the world for our children and their children? Even beyond that, those children in Afghanistan who have been fostered to hate us and taught to murder us now may have a chance to think for themselves. The children in Iraq who had no chance but to suffer in anonymity as those in positions of power grew more and more wealthy while ruling under an iron fist now may be able to dream of making a difference in their own society. These things take time and tough decisions and, most importantly, sacrifice. America has NEVER taken over and occupied another country over the long term....not once. America does not threaten its neighbors with violence and domination if they do not comply with our way of life. America does not interfere with the political processes of other democratic countries. Americans do not burn efiges in the streets of other world leaders and chant anti-nation slogans of other countries. Americans do not strap bombs to themselves and murder innocent people in an attempt to make their voices heard. Americans do not sequester their women and have sexual relations with teenage boys. America does not use chemical weapons on any people under any circumstance, as they are inhumane and torturous. America does not make any decisions internally without the majority approval of a 500+ person body of ELECTED officials signing off on it. Why, then is George Bush such a monster and America such a proven evil entity? All I ask is for a little bit of sanity and restraint to be used. Earthquakes have happened for millions of years. More people will die as more people inhabit more places on the planet. GWB is just another man in a position of power. He is not the incarnation of Satan and he is not some greedy oil-driven monster. He is simply trying to undo all that previous administrations have done to compromise our national security.