> Asia Earthquake kills +24,000 EXACTLY one year after Iran quake killed 26,000
4 January 2005, 16:35
A response to post starting "Okay, here goes..."
While you are entitled to your opinion, I feel obligated to point out some inadequacies in your justification for this opinion...perhaps some clarification may put your mind a bit more at ease. Bush did not say the Afghans did it....it was made quite clear that Bin Laden did it (seeings how he took responbility) and what Bush said was that all countries who harbor terrorists would be treated as terrorists, hence the attack on Afghanistan. Bin Laden was not let loose by GWB (he was, however, let loose by William Jefferson Clinton, whose administration and military advisors have repeatedly stated that they had the chance to have him killed but opted against it), he is an escapist and did just that in a region condusive to such an escape. But, an important note is that he has been minimalized. You can only spend so much money to scour mountains in remote regions of the Asia sub-continent, and we, as a county, are doing all that is necessary. This should conclude the Bin Laden topic.
On to Iraq and "their OIL". I keep hearing this argument, but the US IS NOT USING ANY MORE IRAQI OIL THAN WE WERE PRIOR TO THE WAR. The US is not making money off of this oil. The US is not exporting this oil to its allies. This is an argument of perception and the facts do not back it up even a little bit. As for the weapons of mass destruction "he" (Bush) said that we’d find, let’s not forget that the ENTIRE INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY worked under the assumption that Saddam has WMD. This was not some story Bush concocted on his own. Clinton, Vlad Putin, the UN, Hans Blix (remember him), John Kerry (remember him, too) all made public comments on the conclusiveness that Iraq had WMD capabilities prior to the onset of the war. As far as "no one else being allowed to have nuclear weapons", it wasn’t America who dictated that Iraq couldn’t have WMD, my friend. It was the international community, i.e. the United Nations. There are rules and regulations countries must follow to be entitled to WMD. The US has always adhered to these rules. Iraq has not. North Korea has not. Iran has not. Russia has. Britain has. France has. Perhaps you should visit this document: http://www.casi.org.uk/info/undocs/scres/2002/res1441e.pdf Notice the reference to WMD and non-compliance and to the authorization of force to be used if certain provisions were not met. Somehow, this doesn’t seem to me to be Bush’s will, but rather the will of the international council. Why, then, was there such an uproarious response to US actions? The UN had something to lose (billions in oil-for-food revenue, which has since been proven). France had something to lose (billions in military and public sector contracts, which has since been proven. Additionally, France held oil rights to some of Iraq’s richest resource). Germany had something to lose (billions in military and public sector contracts, which has since been proven). France and Germany’s involvements in Iraq were, at the time, highly illegal according to international law. This should close the Iraq case.
Please describe to me how Bush "hates the Muslims". Have we invaded Indonesia? Have we invaded the Russian provinces? Have we invaded Pakistan? Have we locked up Muslims in our own country? Have we outlawed Islam within our borders? I think Bush hates militants, as should we all. Those people who Bush targets release videotapes of civilians being slaughtered inhumanely. Those people Bush targets say things like "Allah willing, all Americans will be killed". It is insulting to hear anybody, much less an American citizen, target Bush as a Muslim hater. Do you think I enjoy looking into my children’s eyes and praying that they don’t come across someone who thinks to themselves that all Americans should die? How can anyone accuse us of being savages? America did not start this fight, America is not making a claim for any land or oil and America is not, AS A WHOLE, slaughtering people for a religious cause. You say we all should have freedom of religion....I tell you that this is exactly America’s stance. Islam is welcomed in the US. Is Christianity welcomed in China? Was Christianity welcomed in Afghanistan under the Taliban rule? Is Judaism welcomed anywhere outside of Israel in the middle east? Where is the religious freedom in that? Are we converting Iraqi’s to other religions? I don’t think so, my friend. We are irradicating fundamentalism, which is and always has been a murderous rationale. What is happening in Iraq is what is called a transition. Don’t you realize that America was not a good place to be as we fought for our independence? Sacrifices were made by a great many for the greater good of their children and their children’s children. You can’t spray paint a prison and make it a school. You have to tear down that prison and build on the foundation that is left. You keep the usable rooms and walls, but you build on them and around them. Don’t be so short-sighted....becoming a free-willed society takes pain, hardship and sacrifice, luckily, GWB has the strength and courage to shoulder these responsibilities. You call him greedy, but how can this be greed? The world hates him, half his country refuses to accept his motives. How is this good for anyone’s ego? You open YOUR eyes and heart.
As for the propoganda machine, sure, all media is propoganda. Watch Al-Jazeera sometime. The first people they blame is always America. As I’ve said before, reality is 90% perception. And, I’d like to point out that in one breath you’ve championed freedom of religion but now damn freedom of speech/press by your negative comments on the media. Additionally, you criticize those who follow the media blindly, but earlier stated your allegiance to Michael Moore, who, unless I’m mistaking, is part of the media. Interesting duality there. Let’s not forget that it is one’s responsibility to make up one’s own mind and to not follow ANYBODY or ANYTHING blindly. We don’t have to believe what the media says, we only have to hear it.
I’ve said it once, I’ll say it again, time will tell the true story of America’s recent actions. In hindsight, you all will see that actions once assumed to be evil and wrong were done for the greater good.
A response to post starting "Okay, here goes..."
While you are entitled to your opinion, I feel obligated to point out some inadequacies in your justification for this opinion...perhaps some clarification may put your mind a bit more at ease. Bush did not say the Afghans did it....it was made quite clear that Bin Laden did it (seeings how he took responbility) and what Bush said was that all countries who harbor terrorists would be treated as terrorists, hence the attack on Afghanistan. Bin Laden was not let loose by GWB (he was, however, let loose by William Jefferson Clinton, whose administration and military advisors have repeatedly stated that they had the chance to have him killed but opted against it), he is an escapist and did just that in a region condusive to such an escape. But, an important note is that he has been minimalized. You can only spend so much money to scour mountains in remote regions of the Asia sub-continent, and we, as a county, are doing all that is necessary. This should conclude the Bin Laden topic.
On to Iraq and "their OIL". I keep hearing this argument, but the US IS NOT USING ANY MORE IRAQI OIL THAN WE WERE PRIOR TO THE WAR. The US is not making money off of this oil. The US is not exporting this oil to its allies. This is an argument of perception and the facts do not back it up even a little bit. As for the weapons of mass destruction "he" (Bush) said that we’d find, let’s not forget that the ENTIRE INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY worked under the assumption that Saddam has WMD. This was not some story Bush concocted on his own. Clinton, Vlad Putin, the UN, Hans Blix (remember him), John Kerry (remember him, too) all made public comments on the conclusiveness that Iraq had WMD capabilities prior to the onset of the war. As far as "no one else being allowed to have nuclear weapons", it wasn’t America who dictated that Iraq couldn’t have WMD, my friend. It was the international community, i.e. the United Nations. There are rules and regulations countries must follow to be entitled to WMD. The US has always adhered to these rules. Iraq has not. North Korea has not. Iran has not. Russia has. Britain has. France has. Perhaps you should visit this document: http://www.casi.org.uk/info/undocs/scres/2002/res1441e.pdf Notice the reference to WMD and non-compliance and to the authorization of force to be used if certain provisions were not met. Somehow, this doesn’t seem to me to be Bush’s will, but rather the will of the international council. Why, then, was there such an uproarious response to US actions? The UN had something to lose (billions in oil-for-food revenue, which has since been proven). France had something to lose (billions in military and public sector contracts, which has since been proven. Additionally, France held oil rights to some of Iraq’s richest resource). Germany had something to lose (billions in military and public sector contracts, which has since been proven). France and Germany’s involvements in Iraq were, at the time, highly illegal according to international law. This should close the Iraq case.
Please describe to me how Bush "hates the Muslims". Have we invaded Indonesia? Have we invaded the Russian provinces? Have we invaded Pakistan? Have we locked up Muslims in our own country? Have we outlawed Islam within our borders? I think Bush hates militants, as should we all. Those people who Bush targets release videotapes of civilians being slaughtered inhumanely. Those people Bush targets say things like "Allah willing, all Americans will be killed". It is insulting to hear anybody, much less an American citizen, target Bush as a Muslim hater. Do you think I enjoy looking into my children’s eyes and praying that they don’t come across someone who thinks to themselves that all Americans should die? How can anyone accuse us of being savages? America did not start this fight, America is not making a claim for any land or oil and America is not, AS A WHOLE, slaughtering people for a religious cause. You say we all should have freedom of religion....I tell you that this is exactly America’s stance. Islam is welcomed in the US. Is Christianity welcomed in China? Was Christianity welcomed in Afghanistan under the Taliban rule? Is Judaism welcomed anywhere outside of Israel in the middle east? Where is the religious freedom in that? Are we converting Iraqi’s to other religions? I don’t think so, my friend. We are irradicating fundamentalism, which is and always has been a murderous rationale. What is happening in Iraq is what is called a transition. Don’t you realize that America was not a good place to be as we fought for our independence? Sacrifices were made by a great many for the greater good of their children and their children’s children. You can’t spray paint a prison and make it a school. You have to tear down that prison and build on the foundation that is left. You keep the usable rooms and walls, but you build on them and around them. Don’t be so short-sighted....becoming a free-willed society takes pain, hardship and sacrifice, luckily, GWB has the strength and courage to shoulder these responsibilities. You call him greedy, but how can this be greed? The world hates him, half his country refuses to accept his motives. How is this good for anyone’s ego? You open YOUR eyes and heart.
As for the propoganda machine, sure, all media is propoganda. Watch Al-Jazeera sometime. The first people they blame is always America. As I’ve said before, reality is 90% perception. And, I’d like to point out that in one breath you’ve championed freedom of religion but now damn freedom of speech/press by your negative comments on the media. Additionally, you criticize those who follow the media blindly, but earlier stated your allegiance to Michael Moore, who, unless I’m mistaking, is part of the media. Interesting duality there. Let’s not forget that it is one’s responsibility to make up one’s own mind and to not follow ANYBODY or ANYTHING blindly. We don’t have to believe what the media says, we only have to hear it.
I’ve said it once, I’ll say it again, time will tell the true story of America’s recent actions. In hindsight, you all will see that actions once assumed to be evil and wrong were done for the greater good.
Proud Patriot