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Osama Bin Laden is dead since December 26, 2001. Translation of Funeral Article in Egyptian Paper

by Open-Publishing - Tuesday 1 January 2008
87 comments

Attack-Terrorism

Osama Bin Laden is dead since December 26, 2001.
Translation of Funeral Article in Egyptian Paper al-Wafd

The original article:

Translation of Funeral Article in Egyptian Paper:
al-Wafd, Wednesday, December 26, 2001 Vol 15 No 4633
News of Bin Laden’s Death and Funeral 10 days ago

Islamabad -
A prominent official in the Afghan Taleban movement announced yesterday the death of Osama bin Laden, the chief of al-Qa’da organization, stating that binLaden suffered serious complications in the lungs and died a natural and quiet death.

The official, who asked to remain anonymous, stated to The Observer of Pakistan that he had himself attended the funeral of bin Laden and saw his face prior to burial in Tora Bora 10 days ago. He mentioned that 30 of al-Qa’da fighters attended the burial as well as members of his family and some friends from the Taleban.

In the farewell ceremony to his final rest guns were fired in the air. The official stated that it is difficult to pinpoint the burial location of bin Laden because according to the Wahhabi tradition no mark is left by the grave. He stressed that it is unlikely that the American forces would ever uncover any traces of bin Laden.

http://www.welfarestate.com/binladen/funeral

Forum posts

  • Yes, the cardboard boogeyman and the fake tapes still keep the sheep scared though. Americans are such a stupid lot.

    • To call the american people stupid is wrong, they are no different than we canadians or others in the world. We have all been brainwashed by the SYSTEM since the day we were born. But, alas we are waking up, Im just afraid its a little too late.

    • speak for yourself.....i am not stupid i am canadian i question everything ....and for the record i have been saying for years bin laden is dead and that if anyone is planning on finding him perhaps they should first hit their local canadian tire or walmart store and purchase a shovel cause to dig him up is the only way they are gonna find him

    • Lo! and Behold!
      Dr. Ron Paul is like "The Messiah",
      and he shall prevail.

    • Americans have worked tirelessly day and night for hundreds of years to acheive this level of utter stupid sloth and apathy- don’t try and strip them of their title of being the dumbest most destructive idiot fucks on the planet.

    • Oh yeah, well I’m American, and I question why you would believe "for years" that OBL is dead without any direct evidence.

      I also question the validity of this article, the "scan" used above, all OBL videotapes, the 2000 election results, the bulge in GW’s jacket, Nigerian Yellowcake, and Nigerian emails.

      Pack those Maple leaves in your pipe and smoke ’em.

    • I question why you would believe that OBL ever existed without direct evidence.

    • What makes you think you’re not a complete idiot?

    • I question why you assume I do, without having said so.

    • You call us stupid? Look at what you call BACON!!!!!

    • Thank you kind sir. As an idiot fuck American who has nothing except a damaged ego, your pity is greatly appreciated. Now I can relax and spend the afternoon car hunting for deer and drinking with my friends from church.

    • I agree, the majority of us are stupid.

      oooh, the bad terrorists want our freedom, well dammit they can’t have it, but our gov’t is more than welcome to them.

    • Its to similar to 1984 Winston... the minute of hate baby!!! the minute of hate

    • Suck it, rag-head

    • You are so smart and yet you have no idea of punctuation or capitalization. L00z D00d :D !!11!!!

    • we may be stupid, but i bet your quality of life just isn’t quite there. Jealous much? live and let live dude, just because our government does things you don’t agree with, who is the stupid idiot fuck who makes sweeping generalizations about an entire country’s population. There are so many different people with different races, religions, credos, etc. in this country, there is no way to generalize. To boot i’ll bet your friends with at least 1 American, hypocrite.

    • I am American and from time to time I really enjoy Canadian bacon. Let’s be honest, its delicious on a breakfast sandwich..

    • Canadians, get bent. In the nicest possible way.

    • How dare you talk about people in the manner that you have!!!! All Americans do not believe everything the US state department/government agencies tell us! Suggestion..research American people and what they believe instead of demeaning innocent intelligent people! There are stupid people all over the world,here,there, and everywhere! Get it straight! I personally am not destructive and do not believe violence will ever bring peace! If there is one of me there are more out there like me! I am sick of being judged by the actions of this inept administration! Our vote has been hijacked and stolen decades ago, so do not blame American citizens for criminals being in power! We have asked and demanded for impeachment charges on this whole administration, but without Congress representing citizens voices impeachment never is pushed! Read 1984 by George Orwell, the parallels are endless and frightening to what is going on now.

    • You proudly display your ignorance by declaring that Americans are a "stupid lot". Don’t drag us into your your projection of yourself.

    • It’s never too late. It’s all relative to what it’s worth. For me, this physical form is temporary so I don’t mind giving it up to fight the fascists in their game to create a two-caste international economy with full serf/master situation. I would without hesitation take any of them out were they to offensively attack me.

    • I QUESTION WHY YOU ARE BOTH QUESTION EACH OTHERS’ QUESTIONING, BUT I DO IT IN ALL CAPS!

    • nooo! A-merry-cans ARE stupid!

    • "we may be stupid, but i bet your quality of life just isn’t quite there."

      aww come on, it’s not SO bad taking a skidoo to school and living in igloos!

    • Hey dude! FYI you have probably never left the USA to see how the rest of the world lives. I hate to burst your bubble, but the USA is not the best in the world. We have more poverty, more infant mortality than most developed nations. Sorry, it is a fact. We do not have the best quality of life. Unless of course you’re thinking of SUV’s and other wastefullness.

    • No, your not alone in thinking and believeing peace cannot and will not be done by war. We Americans are anything but stupid. Some of us however,happen to live with the gov. blinders on. Not stupid,afraid.Most of us are peacefull. There’s about 25% whom believe the lies, most of us see! We pray for peace and serenity for all nations.We can achive it if we all work together! PEACE TO ALL!!

    • I think he is dead because i hsave not heard anything about him for awhile

    • you don’t have to put down the american public. We are kept in the dark about almost everything that goes in in and outside of the US. I am 38 years old and just learned that John Hanson was the first president of the US and he was darker than I. Also today 30 Apr 08, I found Butto’s interview on youtube were she says that Osama was murdered by the guy who killed Danial pearl. There are a lot of americans who have ideas about what is really going on in the US, but we are label as conspiracy theorist, crazy, etc... Some people will even use violence and or death because they don’t want to hear what we think or have to say. There are a lot of things that I have found out, but there are many more that I have not discovered yet. I personally know the type of people you refer to as stupid americans, but do not group us all together. There are those of us who do think outside of the box and real unaltered information is not always easy to come by when the world media does not report the truth or alters it and passes it as the truth.

    • I’m an American, and I’ve been saying bin laden was dead for a long time. Not all of us are stupid sheep who just buy whatever these corrupt politicians tell us is the truth. By the way, I saw video of the Bilderberg group meeting in Canada, and interviews with Canadian citizens who have no idea who Bilderberg even is, or what they do. I think some people WANT to believe the government, but some of us prefer to look at their track-record first. You and I, we better learn to get along, because the NAU is coming, no matter what idiot is in the white house, and there are still people who don’t believe THAT, too. By the way, do you know how many UN troops are in YOUR country? Why are they here? And why don’t people KNOW they’re here?

    • Excellent response that may underscore much of the contention and strife we face.

      I’ve come to understand that the first front in this most recent global war is being fought in and against the minds of the "Coalition" citizenry — for without our consent (though even tacit, it may be), the military/globalist machine would be forced to capitulate.

      Thank you for your insight.

      Peace & Power!

    • If only he wasn’t actually just a tool of the plutocracy.

    • Just wondering why you would wonder if OBL was still alive if all the videotapes were faked. Also wondering why if his image in videotapes was faked from beginning to end, why it would even matter. It all leads to the same conclusion; people in high places are ducking with us.

    • Americans can’t and shouldn’t be trusted to lead the world and they have 100 % proved that !

      As far as Bin Laden being alive or dead I’d say it’s up in the air.
      There’s no way Americans killed him earlier and did not state it as some suggest; however, it would make more sense that he died of natural casues and this is WHY they couldn’t get there hands on him.

      You ALL (the world) might think you are smart, but you are not and you don’t know real truth or intellect as none of us have ever been given the chance to be free and live for what we want.

      I don’t want the right to buy and sell what they want me to buy, I want actual freedom.... NEVEr will you get that from America or their leadship.

      Americans are greedy, crazy twisted folks that only care about themseleves and what they can take from you and me. Period.
      Actions speak louder than words ever will.

      A wiseman

    • Nothing quite as satisfying as being insulted by someone who’s never met me to make that distinction for themselves.Get a purpose besides inflating yourself and deflating others.Interesting comment from a WiseMan. Impressive!

    • It is always the folly of pseudo-intellectuals and the so-called enlightened to assume that their perception of reality and/or their opinions should be seen as absolute truths. Those who make sweeping indictments on any subject or against any people only prove how limited their perspective really is and justifies the fact that they really have no opinion. Can you see the irony in what I’m writing here?

    • Not all of us are asleep. Not all Americans are being entertained into slavery. Many of us are awake to the scientific dictatorship that is the US government.

    • so if you are questioning "the evidence" he has been dead since 2001 why aren’t you questioning "the evidence" or lack thereof of the current claim he died recently???

    • its hard to belive that you actually outswam 100,000 other sperm to get your chance to be an idiot

    • Slam dnuikn like Shaquille O’Neal, if he wrote informative articles.

    • Your’s is the itnleglient approach to this issue.

    • u mean Obama?

  • Go suck on another Tim Horton, you pasty bastard. We all know what’s going on, we just can’t do anything about it. When your country does something important, you can shoot your mouth off. Until then, shut it!

    – An American.

    • America’s achievements? Death and destruction of people and environment across the planet. Much the same as Britain’s legacy for that matter..

    • Of course we are like Britain. Why would we want to be like the French?

    • This was indeed a god old American Truth, that makes me feel good to hear that still keeps walking , trouble is that BLO, GWB, G8-G20, warriors run today ! But can u catch em up walking if others are RUNING ? That’s the question, what America needs is more of these TRUTH RUNNING IN THE BLOOD , not in the mouth !

      Honest Abe, in memory of Abe Lincoln (who got assassinated just because he restarted to print paper money, killed by International Bankers, cause they don’t want others to do their job ! GOT IT BABY ! So was Kennedy assassinated wanting print the Lincoln FIVE DOLLAR BILLS, that paid THE CIVIL WAR ! So America belongs to Big Bad Buisness and Banks not to Americans. Most of these bullshits u hear is preached by THE CLERGY, that wants to say that best prophet was not a philosopher but a buisinessman , money is good , Jesus was a little drunk when he preached against DIABOLICAL MONEY !
      Allah sent the other to say money is good ’use it and be used by it’ ! The road to Hell is Openned Up by GOOD INTENTIONS ! You can take Four Wives and many more if u can Allah will give u even more for that in the heaven ! Go faster to heaven, I’ll stay here longer to preach and enjoy my wives and other lovers (SIGHAAAAS, BAH BAH !)
      All these crap-talk is because a clergy is making Billions in USA and Abroad !
      HALLAL is a huge market , that Multinationals attack it to make more money GOD IS WITH THE POWERFUL, and the more money u get the more power u have , isn’t that beautifull thruth ? Halleluia , Allah is the most powerful ( with an eye wincking ! )

    • I was really confused, and this answered all my quesiotns.

  • Wow....so, do we take all Canadians are the Prime Minister, of COURSE NOT, the world is full of sheep, and sheep hearders, and the majority of us have known all along hes dead. Bush is a tool, elections are just $$. Put that in your pipe and smoke it.

  • Lies!!! They’re all LIES!!!

    • This was common knowledge to Benizir Bhutto, who herself was assassinated weeks after relating the fact of bin Laden’s death on British national television.

    • That is true. Benizir Bhutto said that Osama bin Laden was MURDERED by a guy named Omar Sheikh also know as: ``Ahmed Omar Saeed Sheikh (Urdu: احمد عمر سعید شیخ) (sometimes known as Omar Sheikh, Sheikh Omar, Sheik Syed, or by the alias "Mustafa Muhammad Ahmad") (b. December 23, 1973) is a British-born militant of Pakistani descent with alleged links to various Islamic-based organizations, including Jaish-e-Mohammed, Al-Qaeda, Harkat-ul-Mujahideen and Taliban.’’ — That was a quote from Wikipedia.
      ...—...
      The URL I gave goes to the report about the BBC censoring what Benazir Bhutto said about bin Laden. They don’t want people to realize that he really *IS* dead! The American media is controlled by a very small group of people and the government is ruled by corruption. How can you expect the American people to know everything when the government makes it difficult to not only read about it in the newspaper, but fails to CORRECTLY teach the TRUE HISTORY of the brutality of the United States. ...—... When THe British first came to the America’s the Indians gave them corn. They said ’Thank You!" by giving them smallpox covered blankets!

      View online : READ: BBC Censored Benazir Bhutto’s Reports that Bin Laden Had Been Murdered

  • You can all claim that the US government is fabricating new videos of OBL in an attempt to keep us scared and to control us. But you’re in denial. You don’t understand the real truth. The truth is, OBL did die. But he returned and made those videos. Yes... Yes, you see now? OBL is the son of God. He has been resurrected—come back to life. Only Jesus and Tupac had done that prior, and then only for a short time to speak to friends or release new albums. OBL has been dead for 6 years and is still making new videos to this day...

    You don’t believe it? So you would rather believe that the US government is fabricating this stuff?? Come on! You’re crazy! The government would never do that sort of thing... So it must mean that OBL has come back from the dead.

  • Is it at all possible that none of this banter amounts to anymore than another BS forum post that no one of importance will read or care about? All this is, is another place for a bunch of douches to sit and thump their chests over something that they have ABSOLUTELY no control over. Bottom line, yes, our government does some really shady stuff. No, we can’t change that. The President is only a figure head for a larger group of players. And none of them give two craps about what you put out.

    Now BITE ME!!

  • In George Orwell’s book "1984", Big Brother didn’t really exist. His power came only from the people believing he existed.

    Osama’s dead, but we can conveniently leave that fact out and continue to say he’s alive, and is thus still a threat...as long as the people believe he is one.

  • I would hestitate to take the word of an unidentified "... prominent official in the Afghan Taleban movement ... who asked to remain anonymous ..." over that Benazir Bhutto, who just before her suspicious assassination, interviewed with David Frost and said Osama bin Laden was murdered by Ahmed Omar Saeed Sheikh, which statement was deleted in the BBC version of the interview.
    http://existentialistcowboy.blogspot.com/2007/12/bbc-censored-benazir-bhuttos-reports.html

    Of course either way, ding dong, the wicked old boogeyman is dead.

    • "...suspicious assassination" Yeah, it’s another conspiracy. Everything is a conspiracy.

  • Really, they delete bad language?

    Anyhew, Americans are part of a 300 million pop, whereas Canada is 26 mil, and America is a world power and Canada, as Robin Williams would say, is like a loft apartment over a really great party.

    I come from the tiny state of VT, which I would call insular. There is only 1 rep statewide, and everyone knows who that is, and its a consistent history/demographic. What this all means is that America lends itself, by tremendous wealth and power and... can you guess? Corruption.

    The size of the corruption in the country is not much different than the size of this country. So if you like your nice little insular country, cool. The smaller, the easier to not get out of hand. That’s the fatcs the world over. The British Empire has been one of the worst things the world has ever seen, along with the Soviet Union and modern-day China. So give it a rest.

    Forces of centralization over the 20th Century, not unlike Hamilton’s centralized banking system of the late 18th, have pushed for more and more and bigger centralization of its government and its power structure. Many Americans want this trend to go the other way. Many do not.

    The ones that really want the power to stay are in power.

    Ron Paul knows this is supposed to be a confederation of states - he’s right. That’s part of the checks and balances.

    Half the population of America knows there’s alot of corruption, but the stuff runs so deep. People are getting online and getting educated, because the "4th House", as it were, the press and the media, have sold out to financial interests. Blame America for its capitalism if you must, that I can understand, because the corp execs don’t know how to make a great world, they have to make money or stop playing.

    And to say that one people is above another is why you sound like you have rabies. Get over yourself!

    • Maybe you have it all wrong? Yes, the dumbing down of America has occurred with great success, and roadblocks are in place to stop those who read and logically deduce what is happening. Not much can be done now with the "system" firmly in place and protected by our own Americans (police, reserve, military, private contractors).

      But, just maybe, America has been used as an instrument of conquest for both property, resources and world domination. This goes a lot deeper than the "domestication" of America. There are capitalistic Hitlers roaming the earth with exttreme plans that WILL be implemented unless the people rise up in revolution. A revolution without generals yet all generals. A revolution with order or ranks or groups. All must lead the fight against the capitalist evil. Do not strike out at each other, but choose rather the rich and affluent.

      How to start the revolution?? Next time you want to rob somebody, harrass somebody, or anything of the like (not that I condone such a thing), then pick a rich person. The word will get out real fast, and then we can begin the campaign of fear and intimidation.

  • Yeah, that’s some GREAT evidence.

  • Please look at this video. It is an interview between David Frost and Benazir Bhutto December 27, 2007. In this video, Benazir Bhutto NAMES the MURDER of Osama Bin Laden. Her revelation comes at the 6 minute mark.

    http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/12/27/215037/33

    Judge for yourself.

  • OBL is perpetuated by the CIA to keep the populace in a constant FEAR mode ....
    Notice how and when FAKE tapes of this convenient BOOGEYMAN comes out... And WHO it benefits !!
    http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/osama_dead.html

    WAKE UP, Folks !!!
    http://wake-up-america.net

  • Stupid is only somebody who thinks he can’t be stupid!

    But yes Bin Laden is dead. Moreover Al-Quaida is the name of a database created by the FBI in order to track terrorism. In the Arabian language Al-Quaida has different meanings, one is "...place where feces are stored - toilet".

    I don’t think any muslim believer would name an organization like that.

    • It was the CIA name for a branch of the Mujahideen (Al-Quaida means "The Base") lead by OBL, who is dead. Fortunately OBL had made many video/audio presentations for the CIA in the years before he died. He was a great asset for the CIA. He convinced many to give their lives for the CIA...of course, he told them they were giving their lives for the "Allah".

  • There will never be change as long as Americans and Canadians fall into childish name calling and insults over an article about someone’s death. Real revolution can only take place when the the average joe and joanie’s of the world begin to stand together, set aside ridiculous bickering, and stand firm against the powers attempting to exercise control over them. The struggle never ends, just takes different forms throughout the ages. The American worker would not have an 8 hr. workday, children would still be working, work conditions would still be terrible if the people had not stood together with resolve and made the change happen. How many people have been told to go train their foreign counterpart their jobs or they won’t get their lay-off package? HA, if only they had all stood together and said, "Lay me off without your pittance, I’m not better off with a short term fix but with my job!" But as long as We The People allow ourselves to fall into foolish name calling and bickering we give more power to those that are making our world fall apart.

  • You don’t know me. You don’t know my beliefs. You don’t know who I am, what I’ve done, how I feel. You know why? Because I’m a fucking individual. I am not Bush. I am not America. America is not me. I’m not a fucking demographic that you can cite statistics about. I’m a person, with all the complexities, contradictions, and subtleties that go along with that label. Please don’t stereotype me.

    I have marched against the war, I’ve faced down riot police to protest capitalism. I’ve done work to end animal testing, to save giant redwoods on the west coast, to end the prison system. That’s who I am. Not a beer-swilling redneck crossburner.

    Thanks,
    An American

    • Right on! Now, if Americans could only get as organized as illegal Mexicans to march in protest AGAINST bush and cheney and their crimes and FOR their impeachment!

  • ^^^

    LOL @ nationalists.

    • I believe Osama Bin Ladden is dead and I know Bush is a jerk-off idiot puppet of the corporations and is partly responsble for the destruction of america. I am american and wished I was born back in the Kennedy days instead of this greedy, hateful time of history.

  • QUOTE
    I believe Osama Bin Ladden is dead and I know Bush is a jerk-off idiot puppet of the corporations and is partly responsble for the destruction of america. I am american and wished I was born back in the Kennedy days instead of this greedy, hateful time of history.
    UNQUOTE

    Is Bush a jerk-off idiot puppet of the corporations? Corporations? Or maybe jews?

    http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3492562,00.html

    Is Israel in war with Iraq officially?

    http://www.uruknet.de/?p=m39971&hd=&size=1&l=e

  • I had just learned about this right now at this very moment, and I will say im not proud to be an American. This may be nieve but I am so bothered that the American Government can lie about this and make most of us believe he is a threat still...

    • Crazy Hey? I laughed when I first heard it. But if it is true it explains a lot of things that have gone on since 911.......or not gone on. When did they "really" look for Bin Ladin? I don’t think americans are stupid, just the administration. Not even them as people....I’m sure they’re nice....but I still can’t believe they were elected for a second term. Fool me once....shame on you...fool me twice.....????????......you see I won’t get fooled again.

  • I’m still saying that Bin Laden is not dead. I think he is still alive.

    Bin Laden, if you are out there, then you listen to me to what I’m about to say. You have been fucking hiding away from the MPs Military Police for years. You have put a life threat on Mike Huckabee which is not allowed. Mike Huckabee is a good friend of my mom’s and Chuck Norris and his wife Gena too. So let me just say this, all right? If I happen to catch you not turning yourself into the MPs custody within 24 hours, I am going to join the US Navy and I am going to use my hand-to-hand combat on you and I am going to make your life very, very, VERY miserable, you miserable prick. You have been haunting me in my nightmares for years. And now you think that blowing up the World Trade Center Twin Towers in New York City, NY is going everything better, well think again. I think that you and Senor retard Saddam Hussein are in cahoots w/ (with) each other. Bin Laden, or should I say: "Come, Mr. Taliban. Hand Over Bin Laden.", YOU ARE IN SO MUCH TROUBLE RIGHT NOW!!!!!!!!!!!! € If I catch you causing any more trouble in both Iraq and home country/state the USA/MA I’ll be back. And you’re gonna find out what "brutality" really means, you fucking miserable prick. So shoot yourself, you deserve to go to hell and not to heaven, you non-christian believer whore guy.

    • hey amn do u really think that osama exits.he is only fabricated by the amercans to destroy the whole muslim comunity

    • Wow. your a fag. Huckabbes out of the race. Youll never catch Osama. Calm the fuck down you neo-yuppie uber christian douchebag.

  • The patchie Osama has been dead for many years, "The Militery Complex" is taking mankind down a dark road.

    DARK FORCES

    DARK FORCES

    You’ll need a bit of Holy water
    and a little bit of
    knowledge
    Invocation
    to your Holy Guardian Angel
    the Great Evil Around

    God gave man dominion
    over fowls of the air
    and fish of the see
    justification of desecration
    who wrote this MADNESS?

    Get UP! Wake UP!
    Some-one’s taking you for a ride
    Get UP! Wake UP!
    Dark Forces

    They’re printing up money
    that doesn’t exist
    Then watch the wealthy
    as they cash their chips
    Economy’s failed
    start a war machine
    devoid of moral cause
    as we witness the end
    of international laws

    Get UP! Wake UP!
    Some-one’s taking you for a ride
    Get UP! Wake UP!
    Dark Forces

    I’m a inside man
    of the serpent clan
    33 degrees
    I’ll do as I please
    power for power’s sake
    and 2 weeks off
    in Bohemian Grove...
    You wanna come?

    All the banking houses
    that buy and sell
    they’d sell their own mother..
    just eat shit die
    like everyone else

    Get UP! Wake UP!
    Some-one’s taking you for a ride
    Get UP! Wake UP!
    Dark Forces

    Get UP! Wake UP!
    Some-one’s taking you for a ride
    Get UP! Wake UP!
    Dark Forces

    (Killing Joke 2003)

    http://killjoker.blog.is/blog/georg_petur/entry/459765/

  • if i catch usama bin ladens head i want my reward to be to fuck belladonna in both her ass, mouth and pussy, if you grant me that wish im going to cut usamas head like a mole

  • Wow. If hes dead, how did he manage to make more videos of himself talking about rescent terrorist attacks? And why hasent his death been brodcast around the world? Because hes alive and kicking.

  • The new president of the USA Borat Osama asked Mr. George Bush to call to his friend Ben Ladman to make something to justify Borat Osama’s new wars in Asia and Europe.

  • Whether and was in general Osama Bin Laden? That is it was, but whether was such awful terrorist, whether also it has arranged acts of terrorism? America thanking these acts of terrorism has entered a series the soldier which have removed financial crisis. My opinion, this person could not make similar acts of terrorism as it is very difficult for planning, especially not being in this country. After all any, small oversight could lead to failure and arrest of all executors.
    Excuse for lexicon, badly I know English language.
    P.S. With love from Russia!!!




  • The
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    wonderful

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    continued

    further

    progress
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    creativity    , I

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