Thousands mark Hiroshima A-bomb 60th anniversary

Forum posts

• 6 August 2005, 07:08

  This article gives the impression that live after the bomb got be resumed as normal. That is not the case. Also lots of Americans think they can survive a nuclear war. We will see how far this administration will go in their war fare. Rumsfeld already announced the use of nukes against Arab or Muslim states and so does the other rogue state Israel.

  Infamous also the remark of the General who was responsible for the operation of the "Enola Gay" - he told the press he would have done it again.

• 6 August 2005, 14:28

  War is the highest form of human failure. Nuclear war is the ultimate expression of that failure, the creation of those who thrive on malevolence, suffering, and annihilation.

  It is hard to imagine anything more tragic than the loss of life and unfathomable physical destruction that came with Hiroshima. Sadly, though, one could argue that the only thing that makes such a nightmare worse is the inability of its perpetrators to come to terms with their heinous act against humanity.

  For half a century, much of the truth of this story in the form of film and writing has been suppressed. Even today, polls purport that a majority of Americans agree with the bombing. If true, this only serves as yet another measure of the decay of US society as it plummets in the flames of arrogance and self destruction.

  One can only think that, like the bully who finally gets a taste of his own medicine, the failure of the US to turn its back on its past of violence, slavery, and genocide means that it is flying headlong into the jaws of its own trap. Today, it is not an untenable stretch of the imagination to view the crackling films chronicling the world’s unequaled devastation and imagine this happening on a more familiar island, perhaps not so far away. I can only hope that some day, we as a society might permanently rid ourselves of those whose minds are so twisted and dull as to rationalize the unleashing of such powers.

  It is beyond my comprehension, why, when every fifth word in the media is terrorism, we cannot face the reality of what terror really is. It is today, and always shall be, the shadow of the hand of just such evil on the defenseless. When we can speak the truth—that dropping a bomb on children from 35,000 feet and running away is the ultimate act of cowardice and terror—then perhaps we will be able to create a world free of the oppressive forces of a culture that thirsts for blood and power.

  • 6 August 2005, 21:40

    War may be the highest form of human failure, but its also great tragic drama.
    But there is an equivalent tragety less dramatic but with equally monstrous consequences.
    Ghandi suggested that hunger was the ultimate form of terror.
    40,000 children under the age of five die daily from this terror and its related diseases.
    Thats 13 World Trade Centers every day, one Hiroshima every 3.5 days and 15 children dead before you finish reading these comments.
    Stalin of all people said that "one death was a tragety and the rest were just statistics"
    Did we win The War On Poverty declared by LBJ in our own back yard ?
    All of the world has become GROUND ZERO in one way or another and mans inhumanity to man may be happening just down your street.

  • 7 August 2005, 14:29

    So you don’t believe that the bombs did anything to bring the war to a swift end, and, subsequently, avert an invasion which would have taken far more lives than the A-bombs took? The ’official’ story says that this was the case. Why don’t you explain to me why you don’t share this view? Are you overly concerned for the lives of the innocents who died on the days the bombing occured? Maybe I don’t know the real story. Or maybe you live in a false reality. Would you be so kind to inform me? This is all so fascinating! Also would you care to answer whether or not you think that if the Japanese had the bomb, based on their past inhumane transgressions during the war (and their equal interest in the bomb for their own purposes) do you or do you not believe that Japanese would have dropped a bomb on the U.S. as well if given the chance?

    Sinserely waiting to learn the true level of your mind’s toxicity...

  • 7 August 2005, 16:14

    Your posting reveals the very hideous kind of thinking that allows people to justify killing to support their nationalist ideology.

    The idea that killing people saves lives is really sociopathic. There is absolutely no credibility to the notion that dropping an atomic bomb on people shortened the war. If you even allow strategy or rationalization to enter into this, you are no better than a suicide bomber. The whole point of being a human being is to draw distinctions between moral behavior and acts against humanity. This is just double speak; war is peace, killing is saving lives.

    Implicit in your argument is that American lives are more valuable than Japanese lives. This same twisted logic is heard all the time from the evildoers in Washington when they say that they took the war to Iraq instead of fighting it here. In other words, our sweet little white kids can toddle off to Montessori in their SUVs while Iraqi kids get fried in their cribs. Seems kind of racist, I think that the whole notion of countries and flags and religion are primative and animalistic.

    Second, it is irrational to argue that the US should have used the bomb because Japan would have. Although Dick Cheney would agree, in my mind, this is an admission that the US is no better than any other imperialist regime that would perpetrate mass murder.

    People will always start wars for stupid reasons, because war itself is irrational. The loss of those who choose to kill as a way to solve thier problems is arguably beneficial to the gene pool. The death of countless civilians by remote control is murder.

    I am sorry that innocent people were killed in Hiroshima and Iraq and the countless other places that the US has bombed. Likewise, I am sorry that innocent peolple were killed in London, Madrid, and New York that others have bombed. As Peter Ustinov said, terrorism is the war of the poor and war is the terrorism of the rich. They are two sides of the same coin. There is so much denial in brainwashed culture of the US, it is a great tragedy, and the fundamentalist rhetoric out of Washington is a cause for alarm. It is sad to see the two sides, neither any different, locked in racist and hate-filled conflict. Those on this planet who remain sane will sadly continue to mourn the victims of all these psychopaths with bombs, whether they are made from fertilizer or uranium.

  • 7 August 2005, 21:14

    Thanks for waiting.

    The Offical story depends on which Official’s you are referring too. As you know the ’Winner’s always write history’. ( Initially at least, but time has a way of eventually exposing other realities and historical perspectatives

    I will be delighted to begin the task of enlightening you. But it will only be a beginning, the really heavy lifting is up to you.

    Undoing 20/30 or more years of your belief system is a daunting task. I assume you are an American and have absorbed its popular culture and mythology.

    First you might consider reading ’Brighter Than A Thousand Suns’-The Moral and Political History of the Atomic Scientists, if you wish to begin at the beginning. Less challenging however is the short article ’The Myths of Hiroshima’ published in the LA Times August 5/05 ( Sort of a beginners guide)

    For the sake of brevity, time and space I offer the following quotations for you consideration.

    1) "a million lives saved" was popularized by McGeorge Bundy, who later said he pulled the figure out of his head to justify the bombings. He had written this nonsense (propanganda) for his boss The Secretary of War Henry L. Stimson.

    2) R.J.Oppenheimer (Director of The Manhattan Project or father of the bomb) remarked that the bomb was dropped on "an essentially defeated enemy."

    3) General Eisenhower is quoted as " the Japanese were ready to surrender and it wasn’t necessary to hit them with this awful thing."

    4) Admiral William Leahy, Truman’s Chief of Staff said, "the use of this barbarous weapon at Hiroshima and Nagasaki was of no material assistance on our war with Japan. The Japanese were already defeated and ready to surrender."

    5) James Brynes, Truman’s Secretary of State commentated on the Hiroshima attack like this," Russia might be more manageable if impressed by American Military Might and that a demonstration of the bomb might impress Russia."

    6) General Curtis LeMay, commaned over 60 incendiary attacks ( he called them "fire jobs") on Japanese cities. His biggest "fire job" was the bombing of Tokyo on March 9/10 1945, killing over 100,000 people. (as a refence point thats one third of all US deaths in all theatres of WW 2)

    "There are no innocent civilians, so it doesn’t bother me much to be killing innocent bystanders" ( He later suggested "We should bomb Vietnam back to the stone age" This almost happened as more bombs were dropped on that tiny country than in all US raids of WW 2. It might also be noted that 350,000 tons of bombs did not detonate and that 40,000 Vietnamese have died because of them since 1975.) The General later remarked that if the US had lost the war with Japan, "he fully expected to be tried for war crimes." ( He should know !!!)

    When he became Vice Chief of the USAF in 1975, I met him on The DEW Line, 200 miles inside the artic circle...but I won’t go into that, lets just say it was not a high point in my life. I still tremble when I recall him running with Governor George Wallace as the Vice Presidential candidate. Thank God he was finally grounded by the electorate otherwise we might not be having this little conversation.

    I know that American lives are very precious but contemplate briefly these other human losses of WW 2

    All figures are in MILLIONS unless otherwise stated:

    USSR, 25-38. China, II. Germany, 6. J apan, 6. Yugoslavia, 3 . Rumania, 1.

    As I go down the list I find Britain in 13th place with 292,00 military and 62,000 civilian deaths.The United States follows with 292,000 military and 6,000 civilian deaths.

    To get some perspectative of each individual countries losses to it total population work out the ratios of just two countries The USSR and the USA each having about 200 million citizens during this time period which we are reviewing.

    With these modest comments I welcome you to the world of reality as it occured between 1939 and 1945

    Yes I’m aware that war brutalize all combatants, regardless of a Nations beliefs. I could talk further about ours and their atrocities but what purpose would it serve?

    About my mind’s toxicity all I can say is that I’m not on drugs, prescription or any other mind altering substances. I even quit smoking 15 years ago.

    I just continue to exercise the muscles between my ears.

    I have learned that nothing is really true until its Officially Denied by Governments, yours, mine or other peoples.

    Sincerely hope this has been helpful, and best wishes for your continued good health and for all your future intellectual pursuits.

    .

  • 7 August 2005, 21:45

    To 69***23**

    My stats about Britians war dead should read 326,000 killed not 292,00. This is the only factual error I can find. Should you discover any errors I would be pleased to make the necessary corrections.

    Yours for a more enlightened world.

    from 24***23**

  • 8 August 2005, 04:38

    You’re nfo is intersting... and I am open to all kinds of messages... however, my previous message ^ wasn’t directed to you... see where the indention of my message is? This indention determines to which previously posted message it is directed to. Don’t think that you’re work has not gone unnoticed, however.

    Despite everything, I think that I’ll try to get back to you a little later..

  • 8 August 2005, 06:16

    Your posting reveals the very hideous kind of thinking that allows people to justify killing to support their nationalist ideology.

    ---

    Hideous kind of thinking? Nationalistic ideology? What the hell are you talking about? First off, I’m not nationalistic ; I really do believe that patriotism is a virtue of the vicious. All I infered was that the war was brought to a swift end with the use of the bomb and asked you why you don’t agree. You had nothing to say other than that killing = bad. No shit it’s bad, buddy. But bleeding hearts don’t stop wars when your enemy is aiming to kill you — weapons do. Got that? If you want the real reason why the bomb was dropped, you don’t have to think too hard. Just realize that back then there was a lot of anger over all of the killing, but bleeding hearts in this day and age are far too removed from reality and aren’t nearly empathic enough to figure that out. It will probably be impossible for you to do, but can you imagine being forced to suit up for your country’s defense from a foreign attacker (the Japanese in this case). Think about what your concerns would be. Think about all of the hatred you and your average fellow citizens would feel over all of the lost innocents from your country. Could you so easily take all of the killing and dying going on all around you with the possibility of death being right around the corner for you? No. Of course you can’t. You’re too arrogant. I counter reccommend that YOU, YOURSELF are nationalistic if anyone. If you weren’t nationalistic, then you would understand this.

    ---

    The idea that killing people saves lives is really sociopathic. There is absolutely no credibility to the notion that dropping an atomic bomb on people shortened the war. If you even allow strategy or rationalization to enter into this, you are no better than a suicide bomber. The whole point of being a human being is to draw distinctions between moral behavior and acts against humanity. This is just double speak; war is peace, killing is saving lives.

    ---

    I don’t believe that the bomb saved a million lives per say (and btw, I know that this figure was most likely an overestimate. But what were some of the middle estimates? Half a million? Maybe half of this even? All I know is that I believe that the bombs saved more than they took, considering what the losses would be for both sides. War over there in the Pacific theatre was for keeps. The Japanese, as it was reported, were staunchly in favor of dying to the last man rather than dishonor themselves in battle and surrender. They took fighting to a whole new level. It was even reported that many women and children would take their lives rather than be captured and held prisoner by US troops. Knowing that everything was brought to an abrupt end after the bombs were dropped does in no way make me happy — BUT IT SATISFIES ME. And on on the subject of "humanity," try to understand that if anyone was guilty of inhumanities, then everyone was. Don’t be so incredibly stupid. The Japanese were horrid killers. But I don’t bitch if they choose not to apologize. It’s all over and done with in my opinion... but nationalists like you won’t let it go, will you? No, sir.

    ---

    Implicit in your argument is that American lives are more valuable than Japanese lives. This same twisted logic is heard all the time from the evildoers in Washington when they say that they took the war to Iraq instead of fighting it here. In other words, our sweet little white kids can toddle off to Montessori in their SUVs while Iraqi kids get fried in their cribs. Seems kind of racist, I think that the whole notion of countries and flags and religion are primative and animalistic.

    ---

    No, I don’t believe that American lives are more valuable than Japanese ones. Never in a million years would I believe that, nor did I provide you a good reason to think that I did. You are projecting, plain and simple. And on the ppl who run Washington — I hate em’ too. In fact, I happen to believe that the people how run the U.S. (not the citizens, mind you) were to blame for the terrorist attacks on the world trade center. That’s right — I honestly believe that the government brought them down (just like the Federal building in OK). Anyone with a mind knows that the whole fucking thing was planned by GB and friends so that we could blame it on middle-easterners and then steal their oil among other resources. How’s that for making me out to be a self-satisfied US government ditto-head, I ask?

    ---

    Second, it is irrational to argue that the US should have used the bomb because Japan would have. Although Dick Cheney would agree, in my mind, this is an admission that the US is no better than any other imperialist regime that would perpetrate mass murder.

    ---

    Ok, and why in the living fuck is this supposeably irrational? I suppose that Americans should transcend their natural reflex to save their own necks in the face of a counter-nuclear attack because.... killing = bad. You really are a twit, you know.

    ---

    People will always start wars for stupid reasons, because war itself is irrational. The loss of those who choose to kill as a way to solve thier problems is arguably beneficial to the gene pool. The death of countless civilians by remote control is murder.

    ---

    Wars are started for financial reasons. Asshole leaders get together and conspire to start them because they equal huge money, plain and simple. They leave themselves out of the war and simply sit back and count all of the money. Unfortunately, to all of the hapless citizens wars are perfectly rcapable of killing them and their family and their friends. That’s part of the reason why people do heinous things like decide to drop giant bombs and then flee — it’s because they don’t want to die. Is that rational enough for you?? No, of course not — you don’t think about the angles.

    ---

    I am sorry that innocent people were killed in Hiroshima and Iraq and the countless other places that the US has bombed. Likewise, I am sorry that innocent peolple were killed in London, Madrid, and New York that others have bombed. As Peter Ustinov said, terrorism is the war of the poor and war is the terrorism of the rich. They are two sides of the same coin. There is so much denial in brainwashed culture of the US, it is a great tragedy, and the fundamentalist rhetoric out of Washington is a cause for alarm. It is sad to see the two sides, neither any different, locked in racist and hate-filled conflict. Those on this planet who remain sane will sadly continue to mourn the victims of all these psychopaths with bombs, whether they are made from fertilizer or uranium.

    ---

    Stop the press cause you finally got something right — we’re all fucked unless insane rulers and their backers are eliminated. But that’s not likely to happen, is it? Just go play a video game or something while you’re still alive. You can thank me later when we get to hell.

  • 8 August 2005, 10:22

    If the nuclear attack on Japan really stopped the war and saved lives like the U.S. government claims then why don’t we drop one or two on Washington D.C. and save lives and future wars? I believe this rational applies even more truly to our own vicious government. We need to nuke them to save lives and prevent wars in the future just like they have taught us. What is good for Japan is even better for the U.S.A.

    The real terriorists are the CIA and the USA, there is tons of evidence to this fact. So if anyone should be nuked it is the likes of the president and the senate and the congress and the supreme court who are all comprised of criminal thugs promoting death and destruction for power and money.

  • 9 August 2005, 01:06

    Why stop with Washington? If you want to stop future wars, then you should go a bit further and admit that everyone should have to die. Who should we start with, hmmm? OOOooops. Looks like I just endorsed yet another war. Wait a sec — instead of furthering our phoney war on drugs, and poverty, and famine, etc., we should have one on war, itself. Is it possible to have a war on war? I say let’s give it a shot! Grab some yellow cake and throw it in your neighbor’s face! We can kill all of the killers and then *voila* nobody will left to kill anyone ever again — AND WE ALL WIN!

  • 9 August 2005, 03:47

    Ok, I’m back.

    To begin with, I don’t want anyone to get the wrong idea and believe that I am some kind of wacko patriot hawk — I am anything but. There are a gazillion things that the US does extremely wrong, and I pride myself as a person who is more than happy to seek them out and spread knowledge about them so that these ’wrongful things’ aren’t repeated again so soon, if possible.

    But anyways, to be honest with you, I haven’t done any real "lifting" of the events surrounding the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki — that much I’m not afraid to admit to anyone. It’s not that I don’t believe that there isn’t any controversy to be unearthed about the subject, but, rather, there probably isn’t that much (IMO) to uncover and I simply don’t care about this subject to to the point where I am modivated to research it on my own (right now, there are other things that concern me more). I have watched plenty about the bombings on television, though. From what I’ve listened to, it appears to me that the Japanese weren’t likely to surrender at all, despite their perilous position. I admit that it seemed to me that the Japanese were sufficiently contained, but TV accounts seem to state that the Japanese would rather die an "honorable" death rather than surrender and be subjected to the shame of defeat. Is this notion mostly correct or is it not?

    Some of the quotes you mention are fine quotes, but they don’t necessarily reflect truth (i.e. what are the facts that support these quotes?). The people who stated the quotes you posted may have largley been correct concening what they stated... and yet you also HAVE TO ADMIT that they MAY have been wrong about what they said... (every quote you cited could be construed as opinion, aftarall). Besides, anybody can weed though available quotes on this subject (or any subject, for that matter) and come up with what seems to be a solid case however which way you choose... however, you would merely be presenting a portion of all available opinions rather than all.

    To demonstrate how some of your quotes may have been incorrect, and largly be isolatable as mere opinions, consider the following. Two of your quotes imply that the Japanese were both defeated and ready to surrender. I have heard it said that EVEN AFTER THE BOMBS WERE DROPPED that there were Japanese Generals (number unknown to me) who were still staunchly against surrendering. In fact, as absolutely nuts as it sounds, they supposably contemplated directly defying the Emperor of Japan and his order to stand down. For all those generals knew, we had pleny more nukes to use, but this meant little to them (if this was all true, of course). Japanese honor-seeking obviously would have driven many, many more Japanese to their graves whether from fire-bombing, conventional fighting, starvation, etc. Is that what we should have continued to rely on instead of use the nukes — just continue to kill them the old-fashioned way?! Why would that have been any better? Death is death, whether it be from conventional or unconventional weapons. Methods don’t matter in real war, because in war, as well as love... (well, you’re a smart guy/gal. you should know the rest).

    In conclusion it would appear to me that, in the face of such a horrible wearpon, the Emperor of Japan had no choice other than to discontinue the very war in which his country had started. As it turned out, the bombs that were dropped were something akin to a 1, 2, knock-out punch. It was undeniable that these bombs were terrible ; the grounds hit with these weapons were a horrid site to survey. In the face of such atrocity, it is natural for many to recoil, and for good reason. But whether realized or not, these weapons prevented further, and inevitable, death. Had the bombs not been used, it is obvious to me that the Japanese would not have surrendered despite thier ultimately hopeless position, and death would have raged on for all Japanese people in the many ways death does during times of war. Few people also understand that the bombs presented a show of force which allowed the Japanese to "honorably" back away from the war. The bombs were far too great of a force to resist, and therefore, a necessary honorable surrender was promptly effected when made attainable.

    I am not proud of what happed, but as I said before, I am satisfied with how it all turned out. But once again, THIS IS SIMPLY AN OPINION.

    Question: If I was a General, would all of this mean more to you?

  • 9 August 2005, 08:18

    That’s okay troll, we just skip your ten page bull shit, so no problem. And do they pay you by the word???

  • 9 August 2005, 23:52

    Is that what you told your teachers in school, scum? Please go fuck yourself, will you? Thanks — come again.

  • 11 August 2005, 00:20

    To my Noble Adversary # 69***.23**

    Greetings,

    Thanks for the time you have taken I appreciate your thoughtful and challenging comments/opinions.

    I too must admit that I’m not an expert on Japan, WW 11 or a psychic, when it comes to reading the minds of the mighty and the powererful, who make momentous decisions on our behalf.
    I’m not a conspiracy buff either so with the confessions over, lets get to it

    I think this period in history has been a bench mark, a primary source for many of the the challenges, quandries,beliefs, tragedies and Behaviours which unfold before us daily. Like you I do not consider myself stuck in the past, but I do see a line which stretches from Hiroshima to Fallujah and beyond. Thus my passion and interest in the past and present political scene.

    Like you, my first sources of information were from TV accounts and the many fine sounding one liners. I have watched excellent documentaries (re-enactments) with Japanese generals and government officals, comments made on their behalf I don’t question. The best of these documentaries have come from from PBS, BBC, CBC the Australian broadcasting system and of course the History Channel. Many of these programs I have taped and studied in detail, knowing that if "a picture is worth a thousand words", than thousands pictures must be worth a million words. I am aware of the subliminual messages, of this mediums pesuasive power in over saturtating the rational mind. Its not what is presented I have difficult with, its what is not shown or spoken that sounds the alarm bells for me.
    The messages in Hollywood movies, the offically censored military films and reports, are usually generally easy to see through once you are familiar with the format
    I watch movies like Top Gun knowning that it has been offically approved by the Pentagon Public Relations Office. Providing aircraft carriers, fighter jets at incrediable expense for free ( your tax dollars) as long as the script meets military approval guidelines, a most clever way at message manipulation, control and for recruitment purposes. Movies have various ratings containing subject matter for different age groups, I suggest that all movies that receive substantial tax payer money carry the warning This movie has been sponsored and authorized by the Pentagon.
    Knowing about these scams I am able to assist my grandchildren in developing critical thinking skills for coping with the rentless media blitzkreig of frequent misrepresentation and out right fabrications. ( GI Jessica Lynch and Paul Tillman come immediately to mind)
    Platoon is a movie which expresses opinions most of my Vietnam friends understand and relate too. That it took one man over two years just to get seed money to produce this low budget film says something about getting certain opinions, facts and truths out.

    Sorry I digress...but we are not dealing with an easy subject here

    I concur that Japan "was sufficiently contained" (perhaps offering an alternative to nuking em ?) I totally support your view that Bushido was rampant through out almost all segments of Japanese society.That school children of all ages and regardless of sex were prepared and willing to confront Americans with nothing more than sharpened bamboo poles is a frightening prospect especially if you had to gun them down at close range. I will not go into the incredibily successful propaganda program that produced such beliefs. However the fact that 60 percent of American citizens today are of the opinion that Iraq had something to do with 911 simply astounds me, how about you.? If this is possible within an open society understanding the Japanese mind set in a closed and totalitarian system is childs play.

    About Opinions, Quotes and Admissions:

    1) Most of my quotes are abridged and removed from their more powerful context, I would have liked to expanded on them.

    2)I believe the short list of representatives I selected, eg The Secretary of State, The Military Chief of Staff, The Secretary of War and the most Senior Commanding Generals, were at the top of the food chain, recipients of vital information, critical intelligenc and collectively had the most accurate picture of ’realities on the ground’ in Japan (the Japanese military code had been cracked, what a bonus that must have been) If their knowledge and beliefs are to be shrugged off as merely opinions...you’ve got me....speechless....congratulations. Not even my friends would believe I could be rendered into such a state. However I will continue to trundle along and let’s see what happens

    3) The freedom of Information Act and the availability of so many declassified documents have professional historians reviewing vigororously one event in particular which is;
    " Washington has believed that the atomic bomb decisively forced Japan’s surrender. But the Soviet factor carried greater weight in the eyes of the emperor and most military leaders. For surrender to the Soviet Union would have surely have doomed the monarchy, whereas the Potsdam Declaration, which Truman had delibertly prevented Stalin from signing, held out the slim possibility of maintaining it. Washington has believed ever since that the atomic bomb decisively forced Japan to surrender. For the surrender to the Soviet Union would have surely doomed the monarchy, whereas the Potsdam Declaration, which Truman had delibertly prevented Stalin from signing, held out the slim possibility of maintaing it"
    Perhaps this might explain why MacArther would not allow Hirohito to speak, during or after the signing of the surrender ( I assume that you are aware that the Soviet Union had declared war and was fully mobilized and ready for an imminent attack in Manchuria and Japan)

    4) I think the way we kill our enemies is important. Study only the effects of the tons of depeleted uranium used in the former Yugoslavia, Kuwait, Afghanistan and Iraq. The short and long term illness caused for both ’the good guys and the bad guys" are simply unacceptable. Phosphorous used in Fallujah (first cousin of napam) passes quietly under media radar and our consciousness. I’m not talking of morality here just basic long term rates for human illness and survival in these particular regions.
    What about the soldiers who have to carry out these war tasks and fall ill to PTSD. At last count it was over 30 percent and rising. The number of men who do not seek out treatment is unknown and their reasons for not doing so are not difficult to surmise, machishmo and questionable lack of fibre which might diminish military advancement, peer group pressure etc. I wonder if we are really talking about a disease here and not simply a very human response which is telling the mind to stop, a sort of healthy wake up call for the soldiers and we who observe their plight. Treating this illness is similiar to dealing with a victim of rape victim. We treat the individual first and then get them out of the envirnoment that helped cause the rape. With soldiers we treat and send them back. It takes $100,000 for a soldiers basic training $6,000 for recruitment, $20,000 to $50, 000 for signing bonus and with ’stop loss’ we better send him back to recoup this investment. (I have not worked with soldiers but in the field of psychology I have worked with many victims, I can categorically state that I have facts to back up my opinions about the consequences that result from how we treat others in war or in peace.
    I believe we are engaged in some form of Military Idolatry, watch CNN’s Wolf Blitizer on his new Situation(war) Room program and the constant drumming in the background as but one example. It seems to suggest that barbarism them of course are almost at our door steps Checking in on his antics is probably the closest I’ll ever come to a video game.

    Lets change the subject for a small break.
    Did you know that Hiroshima was never fire bombed ’but spared’ so as to study the full effects of an atomic bomb on a ’clean city’ ?
    That Kyoto was saved from all kinds of aerial bombardment because the Sec. of War, Stimson of all persons, thought it had great cultural significance !!!
    Einstein’s greatest regret was in writing a letter to Roosevelt encourgaging him to develop the bomb.
    All irrelevent tidbits I suppose but they provide some flavour of people/time/place

    5)If I were to accept your "1-2 punch theory of war and the necessity of demonstrating great power" how would you respond if I updated this theory to Iraq and asked you if

    a)The Shock and Awe campaign against Bagdad($100 million dollars for 80 cruise missles) was effective as a show of power, did we get our best bang for the buck.

    b)the massive chaos and looting of this city was it "just an expression of freedom" as stated by Donald Rumsfelt...."stuff just happens" ..."things get untidy"... profound !!!

    c) when the layered levels of bombers blacken the skies over Fallujah and flattening this city was this an effective show of force.? I could exhaust all the letters of the alphabet but lets just stop at

    d)do you consider the downing of a $20 million dollar, state of the art attack helicopter with a .50 cent bullet to be a show of power ?
    Does this remind you of Newton third law, "for every action there is an equal an opposite reaction

    6) Yes I’ve had a number of love affairs that didn’t work out but I don’t recall cruelty or related behaviours as happening or as acceptable tactics when conflict or partings occurred. You "Alls fair in love and war" may have passed its expiry date or self life. Maybe you might want to check on this goodee

    7)In the Art of War by Sun Tzu he states, "The first principle of war is deception" so if you were a General I would keep this in mind. I would consider your comments, subject them to the scrutiny of the 5 W’s and the big H, who, what, when, where why, and of course how . I would then analyse and evaluate within some overall context or framework. Tools might include comparative analyses, dialectical scrutiny etc.

    The problem you and I are facing may possibly be found in the following sorting out of what is a
    science.

    Particle, Atomic or just plain old physics are called ’hard sciences’. Political, Psychological or Histortical studies fit into ’the soft sciences’ In the former most scientist agree on general theories
    or experiments which may be duplicated anywhere and at any time assuming you adhere to the same formulas.Differing opinions exist but are minimual and serve to advance knowledge in those fields. Inherent differences abound in the ’soft sciences’ by virtue of their very nature.There are generally held beliefs and knowledge in the soft sciences which though not absolute are valuable in understanding our past and as general guides for future inquiry and in evaluating behaviour.
    In the ’soft sciences’ its very easy to rattle off "that just your opinion" about any or every topic one chooses to disagree with. this may go on until the cows come home, or you get tired or just fall asleep. However I believe that if we sat down for a day we would probably find ourselves generally agreeing on some basic concepts.
    However rewarding that might be I leave you with this immediate concern;

    Developing a ’small nuclear bunker busting bomb’ to try out on Persians, Arabs, Muslims or anyone else is absolutely insane. But that precisely what is presently being planned and has been budgetted for.

    The lesson I take from Hiroshima, is the power of insanity and the insanity of power. If as you acknowledge "that Japan was contained" that tells me we had time and options, you don’t need me to suggest the wide range of possible alternative strategies.
    Remember that other country we had contained, where even the neighbours felt no threat. (Except of course that old Israel song and dance routine)
    Consider the nightmare we’ve introduced there. As conditions continue to deteriorate will this justify bringing out the ’tiny nukes’, or will they stay in reserve for the next preemptive strike against evil doers
    Talk of, suicide bombers, terrorist, beheadings, we sow the ground for this growth with our power, dominance and tactics of humilation....any ideas?

    When will we leave our mind and come to our senses ?

    I’d be interested in what other things concern you.?

    Shalom.

  • 13 August 2005, 05:13

    Ah - It’s good to hear from you again, number 24, 23...

    I thought that I was going to be left out in the cold after my last message, but you didn’t let me down, did you? Actually, aside from being your adversary and all, I was honestly relieved that got back with me. Besides the two of us, I think that it is safe to say that everyone else has ditched this particular forum for something better, however.

    First off, I’m glad we’ve made an agreement on the whole "bushido" thing. I think that this gets us somewhere. And, subsequently, I’m happy to see that we both agree that Japan was probably "sufficienly contained." In light of our agreements, you suggested that maybe there was a better way to gain Japan’s submission if it was, indeed, contained. But even if Japan didn’t offer a major threat to the Allies in the final days before it’s A-bombing, AND it was also contained... who’s to say that they were going to ever give up? I have to ask, under what conditions do you think that they WOULD have given up if bushido was running rampant? For me, the answer is they would HAVE NOT given up until they were practically wiped out — Bushido would have demanded that much IMO. ( BTW, since our last corespondence I learned that Japanese generals did, indeed, conspire to kidnap the Emperor after they learned about his plans to surrender in the face of the atomic bombs. What do you say to this?). Rationality, however, finally overcame the Japanese Emperor and the war was brought to an end. My previous conclusion, therefore, still works for me. Ironically enough, IMO, the bombs saved not only American lives, but a terrific amount of Japanese ones as well. Were the bombings still acts of cruelty? Sure. But that’s what war is all about — once again, IMO. Did we do something that was truly super-cruel? It all depends on opinions. Back then (and in many cases today as well) atrocities weren’t all that special. They could have been perceived as the norm, more or less — at least in comparison to today in many parts of the world. I don’t think that the US did anything that was over-the-top cruel. Consider the following on the Japanese themselves on the issue of atrocities.

    Examine it carefully, please (specifically the portion about "Japanese Atrocities." It is very revealing. Be sure to take it all in and don’t be too easy to dismiss it:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_of_Nanking

    Did you know that Nazi’s were present for some of the Japanese’s offences? They were taken aback from all of the merciless killing and acts of indecency that were inflicted upon the Chinese. They were so bothered by it all that they told the Japanese that they were sick (in the head). How ironic.

    If a side by side comparison is made between our atrocities and theirs... well, I would like to suggest that our "atrocity" pales, no? Japanese transgressions like these were exactly the sort of thing which caused Freud to rethink his position on sex as being the only modivator of our subconscience (Later on, he factored in aggression). The US’ use of the A-bombs aren’t so outstanding as previously thought if we take into account what the Japanese did on a regular basis to the Chinese long before WWII started. Nonetheless, many events such as these have not nearly the amount of fame as the bombings. Like you say, the bombings are judged as benchmarks by many. But why is particularly that so? I don’t think we can place all of the fame solely on the two bombs’ destructiveness — conventional warfare, afterall, did FAR more damage and took MANY more lives that the bombs did. I think the fame is due to several reasons — particularly reasons like the fact that the bombs were a first, and they also touched off an era of arms escalation, etc.

    (Tossing babies in the air and bayonetting them? Hmmm. In retrospect, do you think that the Japanese were bit"over-the-top, like the US?" I believe that actions such as these debase the entire human race.)

    So you don’t believe that all is fair in love and war, eh? I think that you should think more on this saying in case you aren’t being entirely forthcoming with an honest answer. This time, I suggest that you focus instead on the "war" part. The Japanese thought everything was fair, obviously. BTW, they never apoligized for dick.

    Also, I would like to familiarize you with (YET!) another saying that may help illustrate my personal view over the bombings. It’s "Drastic times call for drastic measures." Of course, I’m sure you know it. Do you admit that those days were drastic? You did cite how many people died, didn’t you? So of course you have an inkling. I believe if you had a WWII Japanese soldier on your ass, you would say ’yes.’ Anyways, I’m guessing that, on average, most people today, however, can’t fathom just how very bad the war really was because we are too far removed from such a thing today, even in spite of the small skirmishes going on around the globe from time to time. Even studying the war’s demographics and subsequently learning all of the facts such as how many were killed during the war and under what conditions, etc., doesn’t necessairly you will understand the human factors (ie understand the feelings and motivations). There was a lot of fear and loathing that many people experienced back then that people just don’t "get" today. After reading a textbook, I propose that students today are prone, if anything, to focus in error on the "major" events such as the bombings, and view them as all foolish acts or acts of satire. Back in the day, these weren’t foolish acts to many. There were plenty of people who saw the bombings as a blessing (and they weren’t just Americans either). Shortsightedness is a rather common human vice, and this is what draws people into making snap-decisions over events which are more complicated than how they might be seen at first. As time goes on, people will experience more difficultly understanding this event and will require more and more intelligence to discern all angles of reality surrounding it, as well as all other past events, as we become more and more distanced from them. Why? Because the people who were really there will vanish.

    http://www.metroactive.com/papers/metro/12.12.96/cover/china1-9650.html

    But am I making a "snap-decision?" Why don’t you review their full context of your previously posted quotes and determine what, if any, alternatives were suggested by the people who said them? I think that it is essential that we realize a few alternatives to the bombings before we condemn the bombings. Remember, standing off and demanding a surrender won’t work with these people (the A-bombs almost didn’t work either). WHAT WOULD HAVE WORKED? Diplomacy is probably the only other option, in reality. But the Japanese won’t go for anything other than a ceace fire! Did they deserve that? And what about the Russians — would they have accepted a cease-fire with Japan as well? Probably not, I’m guessing. It is a challenging question IMO. Also consider that your country (the USA) is running out of steam very quickly (i.e. motivation) and the Russians are coming to wipe everything out and take over. What do you do? You tell me.

    As far as what concerns me a bit more than the 60th anniversary of the use of the atomic bombs on Japan, I would have to say that I am a bit perturbed in all of the evidence which indicates that the events on 9/11 were a hoax. Would you like to learn more? Here you go (if so).

    http://911research.wtc7.net/index.html

    And here are some free videos on the subject which will also prove to be interesting to you as well. You will have to download them.

    http://www.question911.com/links.php

    And here’s another interesting website in general...

    whatreallyhappened.com

    This one has a good article on all of the almost countless facts which support the idea that Rosevelt knew full well that Pearl Harbor was going to be attacked. Actually, in all probablity, HE WAS PRAYING FOR IT. I have to admit, that good ol’ american pride thing? It’s slightly misplaced in my opinion if the people who run the show at the top don’t care about us pleebs at the bottom. I don’t know if I will ever muster up patriotism for my country again, but I doubt it. Oh well — that’s my loss, obviously.

    For everyone else out there that "still believes", ignorence is bliss to them, I think.

    but how bad could bliss be, I wonder?

  • 18 August 2005, 02:34

    Away sailing, family reunions, grandkids etc,
    Will respond Sunday or Monday August 21 or 22

    Cheers, jt

  • 24 August 2005, 01:19

    Holidays over.

    Please consider the word adversary in a positive way, for without one, who would challenge our prejudices, opinions,facts or knowledge. In the martial arts one is taught to consider an opponent as noble, both as a demonstration of respect and as a way to confront fear and anger in a productive manner while engaging in physical (mental) confrontation.

    Right we are together on bushido and containment. What I have to say about the conspiratorial Japanese generals is first, their not being able to follow through with their plans speaks volumes. (Geman generals weren’t very successful in their attempts either) Perhaps more importantly what would be the response of the Japanese people when they had learned that their ’Living God’ had been killed by native sons, regardless of rank or reason.

    I still believe that Japan (The Emperor, some generals and most government officials, there is lots of documentary evidence about the gov. officals position) would have preferred to surrender to the US forces rather than face the USSR. They were aware that the Soviet Military (STALIN) were as willing to sacrifice whatever it took to occupy Japan. They had seen that the Soviets were prepared to take unprecented casualities in smashing over 110 German divisions in addition to the slaughter they endured in taking Berlin.
    They did not believe that the Western armies and the USA were prepared to do this
    The war facts I gave previously were not primarily to demonstrate the horrors of war ( but I hope they might help) but to put in perspective what various combatant countries were prepared to sacrifice in terms of soldiers and civilians. And our side were not high up on this list. Thank heavens.
    It is common knowledge that Churchill, Rosevelt and Allied generals were more than pleased to supply the Soviets with war materials in exchange for massive amounts of Russian blood. The Second Front in Europe was a long time in coming. (Stalingrad makes the Invasion of Normandy look like what...???)
    The Japanese also knew the retreating German armies had virtually lined up to surrender to the Allied forces. And for good reason, for they knew what awaited them had they fallen into Soviet hands after the atrocities they had committed in Russia.
    Again I ask you to reconsider the Potsdam material. The US was prepared to allow for the possibility of Japan retaining the Emperor, while I have no doubt that the Soviets would have done a Mussolini on Hirohito. Remember this wasn’t the first war that these two countries had fought.
    The most important consideration in the A bomb use was to keep the USSR from getting a foothold in the Pacific. That Soviets occupied European countries was bad enough, but thats the price we were prepared to pay to keep our casualities low. To deal with a Soviet occupied Japan and a second iron curtain could not be contemplated. I still believe that when Manchuria had fallen to the Soviets the Japanese would have chosen the lesser of two evils and surrendered to the US, without a soldier having to set foot on the Japanese mainland.
    Other reasons for using the bomb and the line "to save lives, their and ours" was a good excuse to take revenge, to see how it would work, as well as a moral justification, Truman called it "righteous" and prayed that God would agree. ( I’m not aware of Gods response)
    These bombs were qualitatively and quantitatively different from any killing devices known and what better way to experiment than on people. Why were the bomb sites off limits to photographers and journalists. One photographer got in but all information and photographs were censored or confiscated. There was a massive cover up of the effects of radiation etc. The other 600 media folks were well entertained at the surrender ceremonies.

    Your comment about the Nazis being upset witnessing Japanese atrocities obviously did not contain in their group any number of hundred and thousands of outraged Germans that were later to dispose of 6 million Jews, Poles, union leaders, artists, gypsies, homosexuals, and whoever else they considered redundant or sub human.

    I have worked in the field of psychology (25 yrs) so will make my opinions brief. His students Carl Jung, Adler, his daughter and many others have clarified a lot of Freud’s early ground breaking and pioneering work. Agrgression is primarily a learned behaviour in the human species.

    I am not an expert on cruelty or what it is to be "super cruel" but I’m familiar with The Rape of Nanking, and the bayoneting of babies. I am also familiar with many more Japanese war crimes. I have spent time with veterans who were captured with the fall of Hong Kong, and survived four or more years under brutal conditions.
    The fact that we didn’t advertise our ’fire bombing’ tactics is in part denial and moral revulsion, and that killing civilians in mass numbers did not have the effect in Germany or Japan that had been anticipated by our ’military experts’.

    Among 20 sites on my favorites list I check daily are: Wikipedia, Wikipeda quotes, What Really Happened, Asia Times, Common Dreams, Counterpunch, Disinformation, GlobalResearch ,History News Network, Informed Comment-Juan Cole, Toms dispatch, Media Monitors, Medialens and Znet...

    I am not now, nor have I ever been, a citizen of the USA. I have spent 36 months within your country over the past fifty years. I experience few problems with most of your fellow country persons. It is the policies and a general lack of awarness that many folks have about their history and that of the world at large which is puzzling and frightening to me.

    I won’t worry too much about Russia, their empire has crumbled and Afghanistan and Chetchna are contant reminders of their power or lack there of. They are financially broke and acknowledge it ,which is something the US avoids in confronting its debt.
    Of course Putin like any other world leader with a stockpile of nuclear weapons is a potential danger to all of us. But I fear other leaders more.

    China would be top of my list if you want to worry. (without even considering military actions) This country has tremendous economic clout. They hold huge reserves of US foreign currency, unparalled productive and consumptive capacity. I expect that gas will sell at $100. as a base price a barrel in the next 2-5 years, when the Chinese take to the roads by trading in their bikes for cars. The ramifications and repercussions are mind boggling, especially for those in the US who now consume one-quarter of the worlds oil supply.

    About 911 I have not received any satisfactory answers to this massive hide and seek affair. Nothing would come as a surprise. If it’s the casus-belli it sure came in handy for the nightmare your country has created in the world especially Iraq. (consequently for the rest of us as well)

    For a longer overview of American History you might find interesting:

    Going to War: Unravelling the Tangled Web of American Pretext Stratagems (1846-1989 by Richard Sanders.
    It contains all the old chestnuts, Remember the Alamo, Remember the Maine, Remember the Lusitania, remember that Day of Infamy, Gulf of Tonkin, and now I guess its Remember 911 The Day That Changed The World. For me this is simply the stuff of empire building, different times, places and leaders, the means change but the end remains constant. As far as I can tell most past empires seem to fall first internally before they lost their external or geopolitical positions of power.

    I enjoyed the article from metractive, I have a book of Japanese poems written by an 82 year old lady who is very unpopular in in her native country,because she expresses similiar sentiments.
    The Occupation Forces in Japan have to share in the complicity in allowing Japan off the hook in confronting its actions not only in China but Korea and elsewhere. Germany was held to a much highter standard, it would be interesting to understand why. We ask them to grovel every year.

    In both countries however it was the Cold War which drove policies, and we got a lot of scientists from both countries who should have been charged with war crimes. From Germany it was rocket scientists and gestapo types, from Japan biological and chemical scientists were covertly and quietly spirited to our shores.

    The Japanese however do not have a monopoly on brutality, witness our killing of 3 million in Laos, Cambodia, and Vietnam, (and these were not even desperate times) What we do have in common with the Japanese is that we are also unwilling to acknowledge our responsibilities.

    I know these efforts will fall short in convincing you that it was not necessary to drop the bomb, but perhaps you might take a few seconds for a second thought, from a global perspective. Other than that we will both keep spinning our wheels , going nowhere. Its been fun, thanks.

    And don’t give up on your country its worth fighting for, no only for you, but for the rest of us as well

    Cheers

  • 24 August 2005, 16:30

    Hello again,

    I just wanted to write you back one last time even as it seems that you are ready to retire from this discussion. I have to admit, of course, that I am so willing to continue, either.

    Don’t worry about causing a misunderstanding concerning the use of the word "adversary," because I never misunderstood you. I was merely keeping the word "in court" to reflect the humor of it. I figured, if anything, you were actually using the term humorously when you first used it. So there is no reason to disarm me, if you thought that I felt that I was inappropriately engaged somehow.

    Once again, on the bushido/containment thing... THOSE generals which conspired to KIDNAP the emperor probably didn’t care if the emperor ended up dead. If anything, I’m sure that they knew that they definately weren’t going to win. SO I proprose that they couldn’t give a damn if the emperor ended up dead as well. Or was the whole act just a gesture on their part, I wonder? Maybe they felt that it was one last "honorable" thing to try, and didn’t TRULY care if they had actually succeeded in. Who knows?

    "Your comment about the Nazis being upset witnessing Japanese atrocities obviously did not contain in their group any number of hundred and thousands of outraged Germans that were later to dispose of 6 million Jews, Poles, union leaders, artists, gypsies, homosexuals, and whoever else they considered redundant or sub human."

    Did you honestly think for a moment that I didn’t know that the Nazi’s killed 6,000,000 Jews, et al?? I knew that, of course, and am not meaning to omit it from our discussion in the event that shouldn’t be. Both the Nazi’s and the Japanese inflicted massive cruelties upon innocents. But what I stated was indeed fact when I said that the nazi’s who were present during some of Japan’s inhumane actions against China said that they were shocked — plain and simple. Did the Nazi’s later on buy into and commit their own cruelties? Sure. But they never did some of the shit that the Japs did, and that’s all I’m saying. From what I have read, the Japanese were more direct with their approach to raping and killing ’anyone, anywhere, anytime’ I don’t recall the Nazi’s doing things like they did — en masse, at the very least.

    Concerning your discussion about ’not having many problems with most americans’ I believe that you could generally extend this mode of thinking to almost any population, anywhere. Is ignorence here greater than what you detect there? I honestly don’t know, but that doesn’t sound too hard to swallow. But to what could we attribute that to? Do you have a possible answer? There must be one. I’m guessing that most americans don’t have a clue about many ’going on’s’ due to the fact that the information handed to them via the mass media is already digested for them in large. Opinions are running rampant from the people who are reporting it, in spite of such mantra as "we report, you decide" — that’s a bunch of crap. I suggest that the media is working hand in hand with the government. And what the government wants is EXACTLY what you see when it comes to an ignorent population — and that is my take.

    Your words about Russia and China seems to reflect a very sober take on this current affair. Putin isn’t trustable — like you say — but I don’t really care. I think that the Soviet Union is playing opossum and can, and will, make a comeback at anytime of thier choosing (all they need is an outside aggression once again. I believe that Bush and company will shortly provide that aggression in the middle east after another self-inflicted wound). China is very important as well. They and Russia are closely alligned it seems. Additionally, if China begins dumping the dollar for Euros like it seems that they may, then US rates are going to skyrocket, and this may be yet another path to war if managed correctly.

    Most people in my family (the elder ones at least) think that I am a bit looney for thinking the things that I do concerning my distrust for the US government, but that doesn’t stop me from doing what I do. A lot of assholes with blue in their blood are VERY responsible for what is going on. You’re from England, right? You guys are sacrificing quite a bit I hear, lately. No more protesting for you in the face of your government? You guys are really rolling over quite easily, it seems. You know what I think? I think that those wonderful royals you have are going to squeeze you and squeeze you... and when they go too far and you begin to object en masse (the only thing that will save you) you will find that this is now "illegal." What a joke. But it’s not like it isn’t easy to control a population, though, is it? No sir. All you have to do is bomb them and point your finger at the boogey-man and then VOILA! — "protective" legislation is passed. But like you say, there is too much ignorence in many populations to understand what is going on. Turn your eyes from it all you want, but you are getting screwed, and will continue to get screwed, as long as you let your "betters" take full advantage from you. But hey, what are friends for?

    Here’s something to chew on. Take it or leave it, but Iut I’m over and out. Goodbye.

    http://www.clydelewis.com/dis/prince/prince.html

  • 24 August 2005, 18:55

    Wrong again I’m not from ENGLAND !!!!
    Perhaps we’ll meet up on another topic.
    I’ll keep my eyes open for your opinions

    Cheers, jt

  • 26 August 2005, 00:52

    Whoa, wait a sec — I check in for a moment to see if there is anything in response to my last post and lo and behold I am graced with an innuendo. What’s this "wrong again" message about exactly? Why don’t you ellaborate on what it was that I was obviously wrong about previous to my guessing that you were from England? Please tell me why your opinions are so much more "right" than yours, Hmmm?

  • 26 August 2005, 20:32

    My sincere apologies for "again", mate (no I’m not from Australia) it was a tad over the top.
    Probably I overacted to your vitriolic rant about the UK, following your assumption I was British.
    I carefully read the information on the clydelewis site.This took both patience and fortitude. I am sorry to say I was oblidged to assign it to my "Alice in Wonderland" file.
    However the good news is I have completed all the videos on 911, about half were ones I had not seen before, and enjoyed them immensely.
    The other piece of good news, is that my country (I am definitely not a Nationalist ) did not join the Coalition of the Willing, Bribed, Bought, Coerced or Intimidated.
    This wise and moral choice did not come free, various economic retaliatory measures have been taken against us. Speaking for the plebes, this a price most of are prepared to pay.
    Good health, don’t worry about conflict with family members, I share in this challenge as well.
    Cheers, jt .

  • 28 August 2005, 22:21

    Ah — so I was focusing on a word that had been typed on accident. I happen to be producing more and more accidents myself, these days. Know of any good diapers to recommend?

    SO you don’t think too highly of the latest thing I’ve shown you, huh? Well, thanks for looking anyways. I personally thought that it was very creative and had many strange coincidences to report. Besides, if there were be a true Antichrist in this day and age, then that person would have to be someone from England. How about you? Where are you from then, then? Why have you been playing ’riddler’ regarding that place where you hang your hat? I suppose we can rule out wonderland now as being that locale as well as England nor the US. What else surprises me is how you never seem to have anything to show ME in spite of all the things I am so gratefully, and diligently, frying your brain with, in retrospect. Cheshire Cat got your keyboard? Maybe I should just post my email first and get it over with? Here it is: toastmaster2k@hotmail. This way I could be your anti-whatever-it-is-you-are guy if the antichrist isn’t the big ’ho-hum’ you’re looking for. Besides, a guy like you sounds like he needs a good headache from time to time...

  • 1 September 2005, 21:20

    1) The adjective "again", "was over the top", meaning the response may have been excessive in this circumstance, but the word wrong is accurate as it reflects many of your past assumptions, opinions and beliefs, so no "accident’ here, just another incorrect assumption.
    2) When time permits I am always willing to consider differing concepts of creativity, coincidence, subjectivity, sources and speculations.
    3) Yes you can rule out Alice’s country, the US, UK, and Australia. Where I’m from is IRRELEVANT.
    I’m not trying to be a riddler just trying to help you focus your thoughts and arguments. If you knew my country, god knows how many different directions and tangents a debate might take.
    4) As the Zen master says, its hard to pour tea in a cup that’s already full. (Which may account in part for your inability to be shown anything)
    5) Your email address is of absolutely no interest to me.
    6) There is insufficient substance provided from you, to cause me a headache, but I can locate a slight pain in another part of my anatomy, I’m not certain you are the cause, but it is possible.
    7) Sorry no role, ’ho-hum’ or mentor vacancies required at this time.

    Cheers, and may your house be safe from tigers.

    jt

  • 7 September 2005, 06:38

    HAHAAH. Nice wording fancy-pants. I step out on a limb for the purpose of simply communicating with you in the future about any events of our collective choosing, but I see now that my words won’t be honored any more then that of an unwanted guest during his 11th hour stay in the presense of an insinsere host who feins a would be ’hospitality.’ What a shame. I can only guess at what might have sparked such a drastic change in your manners. Was it fear? Whatever it was, I am sure that it was all my doing — according to you, of course. And all of this time up until now you have seemed to sport such a high level rationality in your conversation. It is apparent to me now that I have struck an apparent chord — your wish to remain anonymous. Regardless, I am always happy to finally observe a person’s true colors. Arrogance becomes you.

    I have to admit that I really enjoyed how much easier your dauntingly-complex thoughts were made all the more understandable by affixing them first with numbers. I don’t have any idea just how lost I would have been lost without your accomidations.

    You know, I really didn’t mean insinuate a single thing unpleasant upon you, but merely asked you a few unimposing questions in naked curiosity. Read it again, if you must. "Where are you from?" is not a loaded question, but if you wish to rationalize that I am not able to remain focused (about god know’s what) after I learn such damning information, then that is up to you — and your irrational fears — to muddle. And, again, please don’t alledge that I am, in fact, wrong about countless, unnamed items while, in fact, these alledgedly ever-mounting would-be fallicies of mine are mere disagreements between us concerning past items that you are as equally and throughly unwilling to change as anyone.

    Well, take care, Zen Master. Oh — and, "cheers" with some insincerity sprinkled on top. Fuck-face con·nois·seur.

  • 9 September 2005, 02:55

    Ten deep breaths, a short course in anger management, might help.
    If they don’t, try my grandmothers advice by washing your mouth out with soap.
    Vulgarity may be temporarily theraputic, but as a communtion tactic its rather pathetic.
    May your house still be safe from tigers, cheers, jt

  • 15 November 2005, 18:09

    Hello my name is igor, and I was wondering What people lived there, and where they came from? You see, if all the people were killed during the bombing of hiroshima, where did the people of Hiroshima come from, that live there today? Did they come from places like Korea, Kietnam, Hong Kong, Tokyo, China, Taiwan? Write to me at russianroller@hotmail.com

• 21 September 2005, 01:57

  This article helped me with my debate at school by giving me information that is needed to defend my topic.

  • 26 September 2005, 08:20

    I would be interested to know what topic you were defending.
    You might find History News Network a site in which University professors discuss historical events from both left and right wing positions interesting, both past and present events are studied.
    This is a delightful way to sort things out dialectically.
    They also discuss how and who provides information for High School texts.
    If you are interested and have difficulty finding this site get back to me.
    cheers, jt