Ex-U.S. Marine: I Killed Civilians in Iraq

http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=04/05/24/148212

Ex-Marine Staff Sergeant Jimmy Massey talks about his
time in Iraq where he admitted the U.S. treatment of
Iraqi civilians is fueling the Iraqi resistance. In a
recent interview he said "I felt like we were
committing genocide in Iraq." [includes rush
transcript]

The US Army is denying reports that the highest-ranking
American officer in Iraq, Lieutenant-General Ricardo
Sanchez, was present during some of the interrogations
and prisoner abuse at Abu Ghraib prison outside of
Baghdad. This follows a report in The Washington Post
over the weekend about an April 2nd military hearing on
the prisoner torture allegations. According to The
Post, a lawyer representing one of the accused soldiers
said that the commander of the U.S. military police
company at the centre of the abuse scandal, Donald
Reese, told him that General Sanchez was aware of what
was taking place.

Tonight President Bush will deliver a prime time
address on Iraq aimed in part at controlling the damage
from the situation at Abu Ghraib. Meanwhile,
Conscientious Objector Sgt. Camillo Mejia was sentenced
to a year in prison for desertion from the Army. His
application for CO status mentioned prisoner abuse in
Iraq long before the current scandal.

Now another US soldier who participated in the Iraq
invasion and occupation has begun speaking out. Twelve
year Marine veteran Jimmy Massey joins us on the line
from North Carolina.

* Marine Staff Segt. Jimmy Massey (Ret.), former
Marine staff sergeant who was honorably discharged
in December after serving 12 years, most recently
in Iraq. He is speaking to us from his home in
Waynesville, North Carolina in the Smokey
Mountains.

...

AMY GOODMAN: Welcome to Democracy Now!.

STAFF SERGEANT JIMMY MASSEY: Good morning. How you are
doing?

AMY GOODMAN: Very good. Can you talk about when you
were in Iraq?

STAFF SERGEANT JIMMY MASSEY: Yeah. I was part of the
initial invading force. I was part of first marine
division categorized into RCP-7. The battalion that I
was with was third battalion seventh marines, weapons
company cap 1. I was basically in the main invasion all
the way up into Baghdad, and then once Baghdad fell, my
battalion headed south towards the city of Karbala.

AMY GOODMAN: Can you talk about your experience there?

STAFF SERGEANT JIMMY MASSEY: Really, what led up to my
disgust with the war was the civilian casualties that
we were inflicting. We were given intelligence reports
— the civilian casualties really started taking place
after we left the town of Anu Mannia on the drive north
towards Baghdad. We were getting intelligence reports
from higher command saying that the Fedayeen and
Republican Guards were trading in their uniforms for
civilian clothes, and they were mounting terrorist
attacks against U.S. soldiers and marines using
guerrilla-style tactics, suicide bombings. They were
using civilians as human shields. They were loading
down stolen ambulances and police cars with explosives.
So, as we progressed on towards Baghdad, our fears and
anxieties were heightened, and also due to the lack of
sleep, some of us had less than 48 hours of sleep
getting into Baghdad. So, whenever we were placed into
these situations where civilian vehicles were coming up
to our checkpoints, and not heeding our warning shot,
we were lighting them up. What I mean by lighting them
up, we were discharging our weapons, 50 cals and M-16’s
into the civilian vehicles. When we would do this, we
were expecting secondary explosions, ammunition to be
cooking off or actually have the occupants in the
vehicle fire back at us. However, none of this ever
happened. When we would go to search the vehicles, we
would find no weapons, and nothing to link these
individuals with — these individuals with terrorists
acts. And this happened continuously through the fall
of Baghdad. I would say my platoon alone killed 30-plus
innocent civilians.

AMY GOODMAN: How would you realize what you had done?
Can you give us a specific example?

STAFF SERGEANT JIMMY MASSEY: Sure. Sure. A car would
roll up to our checkpoint. And prior while we were
still in Kuwait, we had actually made up Arabic road
signs to place out in front of our checkpoint area
warning the Iraqis to slow down. That didn’t help. We
would verbally tell them stop and we would fire a
warning shot. When we would light the cars up, you
know, we would go through and search the dead occupants
as well as the vehicles, and we would find nothing that
directly linked them to any type of terrorists. They
were just average civilians that were trying to flee
out of Iraq — or excuse me — out of Baghdad, out of
the city limits because of the invading American force.
They were scared. But with the intelligence reports
that we were given, it was very hard for us to
distinguish the good guys from the bad guys. We
ultimately started looking at everybody in Iraq as a
potential suicide bomber or terrorist from women to
children to old men. We didn’t know who the enemy was.

AMY GOODMAN: We’re talking to Jimmy Massey former
marine staff sergeant, honorably discharged in December
after serving 12 years, most recently in Iraq. He was
in charge of a platoon that consisted of machine
gunners and missile men describing, quote, lighting up
cars, opening fire on Iraqi cars. When you would go up
to the cars and see who was dead inside, what would you
do with the bodies?

STAFF SERGEANT JIMMY MASSEY: We would take the bodies
and search them to try to find any type of
identification or anything like that. Generally, we
found large quantities of cash, and that’s what led us
to believe that the people were just fleeing out of
Baghdad. They were trying to secure what valuables that
they had. Some of them had their valuables in the car,
but you know, there was basically nothing that we could
do with the bodies other than toss them in the ditch
and off the road. So, that’s what we would do, and then
hopefully wait for the Iraqi medics, civilian medics to
come in and take care of the bodies.

AMY GOODMAN: How many children would you estimate you
killed?

STAFF SERGEANT JIMMY MASSEY: With unknown gunfire, the
potential is unlimited, and what I mean by unknown
gunfire, whenever you fire a machine gun especially a
50 caliber and any type of lightweight machine gun, you
don’t know where the bullets are going to go. So
bullets could indiscriminately hit a child. The
architecture - some of these villages that we went into
were very shady construction. Our weapons could easily
punch through. The reason I say that or use that as an
example. I had a young child die in my arms. The father
came up to us at the checkpoint with a child, and began
to say, the bombs — the bombs killed his child. I
called the corpsman. The corpsman came over to assist
the child and said the child probably had internal
damage from the concussion, from the bombs. So, as his
child died in my arms you know, I began to think, you
know, wow, here’s an innocent child that was just
sleeping or doing things that children do, and the —
the response that I got from my command was, well,
better them than us, and, you know, it’s — he’s just a
casualty of war. Sorry. However, that father that was
standing there as his child was dying in my arms, and,
you know, the doc was resuscitating, doing CPR, this
father was looking at me like, why did you do this? You
know, and — you know, why does my son have to die?
Almost just like a hatred look towards me. He knew I
was obviously in command. Another incident it was on
the outskirts of Baghdad near the Baghdad stadium, we
had pulled into an area, and shortly after we had
pulled in, it was on a major highway like a
superhighway going in towards Baghdad. We had just lit
up a vehicle, a red KIA, the Korean-made passenger
vehicle, and we had just lit it up. They failed to stop
at our checkpoint. Three of the men were fatally
wounded that were in the vehicle and one — the driver,
had survived without any damage. As we were pulling the
bodies out of the vehicle, of course, we’re searching
and we find nothing, and these were young — these were
young men. They were in their mid 20’s. The one that
was unscathed, he looked up at me and he goes, you
know, why did you kill my brother? We didn’t do
anything to you. We’re not terrorists. So, I have three
dying men with bullet holes from our weapons, and this
gentleman asking me why I killed his brother. That’s a
tough pill to swallow, and that continuously happened
the entire time that we were in Iraq. After we left the
city of Anu Mannia, it just became utter chaos. It
sickened me so that I had actually brought it up to my
lieutenant, and I told him, I said, you know, sir,
we’re not going to have to worry about the Iraq — you
know, we’re basically committing genocide over here,
mass extermination of thousands of Iraqis, and with the
depleted uranium that we’re leaving around on the
battlefield, we’re setting up genocide for future
generations within Iraq. He didn’t like that. He
immediately went to my commanding officer, Captain
Schmitt and proceeded to tell him about how I felt
about Iraq. Word spread pretty quickly and I knew that
my Marine Corps career was over. I knew that the
statement that I had just made was going to bring about
the blackball pretty quickly. So, I was scurried out of
Iraq quickly, and ordered to report back stateside to
receive psychological therapy for post-traumatic stress
disorder and major depression. When I got back
stateside, that’s when things really became ugly. I
felt like the staff sergeant that just received the
prison sentence for a year. I had to hire a lawyer
because they were trying to pin me with conscientious
objector, and basically, they were doing everything in
their power to threaten me and to intimidate me so that
I would go U.A. Unfortunately, with the staff sergeant,
he fell into their trap, and he went U.A.

AMY GOODMAN: What does U.A. mean?

STAFF SERGEANT JIMMY MASSEY: Unauthorized absence. That
means that he left without authorization. That’s
basically — you know, that’s what they charged him
with. Then they later on pinned on the conscientious
objector. However, the Marine Corps told me they were
going to bring legal repercussions against me and I
decided to hire a lawyer. The lawyer that I hired was
actually — he was involved with the My Lai trials. I
got really lucky, a man by the name of Gary Myers in
Washington D.C. Their main concern was whether or not I
was a conscientious objector. I told them that I
believed in war and some wars in our history have been
helpful for humanity and society as a whole, however, I
do not believe in killing innocent civilians. So, I
told them if they wanted to label me as a conscientious
objector for disagreeing with, you know, killing
innocent civilians, then I’ll see them in court.

AMY GOODMAN: We’re talking to Jimmy Massey former staff
sergeant Marine, honorably discharged in December after
serving 12 years. We’re speaking to him from his home
in Waynesville, North Carolina, in the Smoky Mountains.
We’ll come back to him if a minute.

AMY GOODMAN: This is Democracy Now! The War and Peace
Report. Democracynow.org. I’m Amy Goodman, as we
continue with Marine Staff Sergeant Jimmy Massey,
honorably discharged in December, talking about his
experiences in Iraq. You talk about opening fire on a
group of protesters.

STAFF SERGEANT JIMMY MASSEY: Yes.

AMY GOODMAN: Can you describe it?

STAFF SERGEANT JIMMY MASSEY: Sure, we had just rolled
up — it was probably about 20 miles north of the
Saddam International Airport. We had rolled up into
this military compound area, and to try to give you —
it’s a little bit important that you understand the
architecture. This military compound was heavily
fortified with about 13-foot-tall concrete fences going
all the way around the compound. This particular road
that we went into, these walls were on the left and
right, and the road itself was about 1,000 meters long.
So, it made a very difficult — it was a prime area for
an ambush. When we pulled up, there was already an
Abrams tank that was parked into one of the entrances
at the military compound. At the end of the street
about 200 meters a way from the tank there was a group
of demonstrators. They were holding a peaceful
demonstration. They were holding up signs that looked
like a Muslim cleric as well as Saddam Hussein. The
intelligence that we had received was these
demonstrators — there was about four of them and there
was ten in the background. They were standing next to a
highway overpass. The intelligence that we had gotten,
these people were probably members of the Iraqi
military that had slipped back into the community, and
they were going to be waging all of these terrorist
attacks against us. We rolled up, and about two minutes
later, we had heard a stray gunfire. My men were
already on the edge, you know, with anxiety, and the
lack of sleep, and with the constant reports that we
were given. When the gunshot was fired, my marines
opened up on the demonstrators. I turned around just in
time because I was walking the lines inspecting my
marines to make sure that they had food and water and
they were in the right position in case of an ambush. I
turned around to the front of the convoy, and I saw the
— I saw my marines opening up. I swung my rifle
around. I didn’t know what was going on, and I started
discharging my weapon as well into the demonstrators.
After that, the lieutenant decided to go on a
reconnaissance up onto the overpass area. We — as we
were driving towards the demonstrator, I didn’t see any
weapons. It just horrified me at the thought that we
just opened up on a group of peaceful demonstrators,
however, we heard gunshots coming from that direction
towards us. So, as we rolled up onto the highway
overpass, I looked down and below the highway it looked
like the Iraqis had set up some sort of makeshift
military compound, but it had been abandoned. I saw
some R.P.G.’s lining up against the wall underneath
this highway, and it was about — they were about 200
meters away from the Iraqi demonstrators. This really
disturbed me, because the demonstrators if they wanted
to fire on us, they had the ability. They had the
ability before we even got there to destroy this tank,
because the way that we were jammed into this area, it
was almost impossible for us to turn around quickly.
Nearly — or double almost impossible for this tank to
fire or use its main battle gun. It left this tank
defenseless. These Iraqis had a clear shot of the tank
before we even got there, but they didn’t. I just
quickly- put two and two together and said, oh, my God
– we just opened up on a group of peaceful
demonstrators.

AMY GOODMAN: We’re talking to former marine staff
sergeant Jimmy Massey, what about the use of cluster
bombs?

STAFF SERGEANT JIMMY MASSEY: I had a staff sergeant at
the very beginning of the war. He was our supply staff
sergeant. He lost his leg because of cluster bombs.
Cluster bombs were everywhere, and I believe that he
was the first marine to be awarded the Purple Heart in
"Operation Iraq." because it happened in Safwan, the
town of Safwan, the first city as your heading into
Iraq from Kuwait. They were everywhere. The long-term
casualties of these cluster bombs with children and —
you know, older people working in the fields is going
to go on for years.

AMY GOODMAN: Where were they from?

STAFF SERGEANT JIMMY MASSEY: From Marine Artillery and
from air.

AMY GOODMAN: In the case of the protests, when you
realized that you had open fire on defenseless
civilians, what was the he reaction of your troops? How
many people felt the way you did?

STAFF SERGEANT JIMMY MASSEY: The reaction of the troops
was they were joyous. You know it’s not their job to
play politics. That’s the job of the staff sergeant and
the lieutenant, to make determinations on whether or
not we were in the right or we were in the wrong. I
didn’t tell my troops. My job was to keep them
motivated so they go home alive, and in one piece, and
left with some sort of sanity after the war. However, I
did have several of my younger troops come up to me in
private and say, you know, staff sergeant, can I talk
you to? And then they would go on to tell me, you know,
that some of the incidents were affecting them. So, I
told them, I said, listen double dog, we’re here to do
a job and provide democracy for the Iraqis, and you
questioning and you playing politician is not helping
them. So, I want you to get back out there on the gun
line and do your job as a marine, and let the
politicians do their job. But deep down, it was
seriously affecting me, because it was so evident.
Marines are trained from day one that you go in — when
you go in to boot camp you learn what the Geneva
Convention is, what the rules of the Geneva Convention
are, what the rules of engagement. However, Iraq
violated every rule of engagement that I have ever been
taught - violated every rule of the Geneva Convention
that I have been taught. If you have young marines
coming up you to and asking you, staff sergeant, what’s
going on? You know, we have got a problem.

AMY GOODMAN: What are you doing right now? How are you
living with yourself? How are you dealing with what
happened in Iraq with you and what you and your
soldiers did in Iraq?

STAFF SERGEANT JIMMY MASSEY: I’ll be honest with you,
there isn’t a waking moment of the day that I don’t
think about it and think about what we have done over
there. A lot of people ask me, you know why you are
speaking out? Why are you — you know, are you just
trying to do this for money fame, fortune. What are you
doing? I have been called a traitor, a disloyal s.o.b.
You name it. The reason that I’m doing this is to heal
myself. To possibly heal other marines that are not in
the position for them to come out and say something
from fear of retaliation from the marine corps. I’m
doing this not only to heal myself about to help other
marines that feel the same way that I do.

AMY GOODMAN: Are others talking to you now here?

STAFF SERGEANT JIMMY MASSEY: No. Let me explain you to
— I was also a recruiter for three years in the Marine
Corps. Whenever you sign up for the military, army,
navy, air force, marines, coast guard, have a four-year
commitment. At the end of that four-year commitment,
you still have another four-year commitment in what’s
called an I.R.R., Individual Ready Reserve. That means
in the time of national emergency or crisis, the
president of the United States can call these members
back to active duty. So, these marines that have been
discharged, you know, after the fall of Iraq, they’re
living back in their civilian community but they’re
still fearful to come out and say anything because the
Marine Corps can call them back to active duty. And
then they’re worried about what happened to the staff
sergeant. The staff sergeant is being used as a patsy.
He’s being used as: see, this is what will happen to
you to if you speak out. However, I spent 12 years in.
There’s nothing that they can do to me as far as
calling me back to active duty. So, I feel it’s my
responsibility to let the civilian public know. You
know, the boards that we put into those — the bullets
that we put into the civilians were paid for by the
U.S. Tax dollar. I believe that the U.S. Taxpayers have
a rate to know what’s going on over there. When we
pulled into that military compound, they had makeshift
morgues. They had tractor-trailer beds full of bodies.
It was so bad — this is because of the bombing that we
did — some of them had Iraqi flags on them,
representing that they were a soldier, but 80% of them
didn’t. We would find tractor-trailers literally full
of stocked bodies. It was so bad that the plasma from
the body and the skin was decomposing and literally
oozing out of the crevices of the tractor-trailer bed.
We asked — we asked some of the Iraqis that — the
locals that were basically homeless and they were
living in the compound, we asked them, like, what is
this? How come, you know, the bodies are in there, and
he told us it was from the bombing, and when they lost
the power, they didn’t have any other place to put
them. So, they put them in there to bury them later on.

AMY GOODMAN: Jimmy Massey, I want to thank you very
much for being with us, former marine Staff Sergeant,
honorably discharged in December after serving 12
years, speaking to us from his home in Waynesville,
North Carolina, in the smoky mountains. Any last
thoughts?

STAFF SERGEANT JIMMY MASSEY: Yeah. I’d just like to say
to the Marines, you did a great job. You did what your
country asked you to do. Unfortunately, the rules of
engagement and the Geneva Convention weren’t used. But
it’s up to you to look within your heart and do the
right thing. You know who you are. Don’t be scared.
Come out. The American public, they need to know.
You’re not the only one. There are other people out
there that can help you to heal. There are other people
out there that can help you to get on with your life.
Don’t feel ashamed. Don’t feel embarrassed. Did you a
great job, however, you know, the Command — they
didn’t give you the right tools for you to carry on
with your mission. Just do the right thing, marines.

AMY GOODMAN: Who do you hold most responsible for this?

STAFF SERGEANT JIMMY MASSEY: The president of the
United States. He’s the win that authorized it. He’s
the one that said there were weapons of mass
destruction. He’s the one that gave the case to us for
going to war. We went to war backing him, however, the
intelligence reports that we were getting hindered our
ability to make Iraq a free democracy. You know, it’s
hard to tell a middle aged or middle — you know, young
man in his 20’s — say 20 to 28 years old that just
watched his brother die by the hands of Americans. It’s
hard to tell him, you know, what, hey, we’re sorry. All
right. He’s just a casualty of war. Now, this young man
has taken revenge or is acting in revenge against the
United States in Fallujah, in Karbala. He’s picking up
that R.P.G. because he’s mad. He’s mad at the
Americans. We were supposed to go in there and set up a
democracy. All we did was cause chaos and have a
genocidal mindset. So, they’re mad. They have every
right to be mad. I know if somebody killed my brother,
you know, indiscriminately and laughed about it and
said, well, sorry, wrong place, wrong time, I would be
mad, too.

AMY GOODMAN: Jimmy Massey, thank you for being with us,
former Marine staff sergeant, speaking to us from North
Carolina.

STAFF SERGEANT JIMMY MASSEY: Thank you.

AMY GOODMAN: This is Democracy Now!.