Too many voting ’irregularities’ to be coincidence

Forum posts

• 5 November 2004, 15:49

  Please check out info on this link
  http://ustogether.org/Florida_Election.htm

  The problem was not just e-voting machines. Please notice the huge discrepancies here in counties using optical scanning machines. These numbers appear to have been reported FLIPPED in favor of Bush, in heavily Democratic counties.

  Looks suspicious to me.

  • 5 November 2004, 18:26

    I am not a statistician, but the liklihood that in just Op-scan counties in Florida all the Democrats went out and voted for Bush is a statistical impossibility. Are those final numbers?

  • 5 November 2004, 19:33

    Why Bush won and the U.S. Lost

    by Stoney

    Friday 5th November 2004 :

    Despite the choice for President — Bush would be the first to provoke world war. This invasion into the sand lands of Alibabba is pure dictatorship. How can we call Iraq a war when we are fighting women and children who throw stones and live as barbarians. Barbarians have no choice but to create ’dirty bombs’ . This has always been the philosophy of our country. Just ask any Native American: (That would be me.)

    If we stop our invasion to take their land, the theme of terrorism will cease. People just don’t get it. 911 was the Hoax to go to war with Iraq. Bush planned on attacking Iraq from the beginning — Iraq would have happened without 911. 911 was the catalyst to provoke fear in the masses of the U.S., boost patriotism like a Coke commercial, and raise Bush above his pedestal of stupidity. The world is no better and no worse now that Sadaam is still back in his own country — it amazes me how Bin Laden with his dialysis machine and Sadaam always knew where to hide from the strikes of the U.S. military. Doesn’t that say something about these strange bed-fellows of Bush?

    When 911 happened the Bin Laden family was first to be flown out of the country. Over 115 members of his family were protected by the U.S. That doesn’t sound like the first thing to do when you have a suspect. It sounds as though regardless of the propaganda about security measures being over-looked by Bush in August 2001, that Bush was a part of this plan.

    Although no one would dare accuse a President of setting the stage for war, no one ever thought that a President would steal an election right in front of the worlds eyes.

    Now, today, the world laughs at us: "Stupid Americans"

    How can they be so stupid as to vote for this man again?

    Kerry’s speech was too relaxed, too general, too bizarre coming from an attorney that had 10,000 attorneys to right and fight this election. Something happened that made Kerry look just like the Flip-Flopper he was accused of being. I can’t imagine what Black-mail was behind the scenes, but I do know this — several stories have proven that Kerry was the winner. That all the Exit polls had him escalating in the margins above Bush.

    Bush "Nazieed" this election, the war on Iraq, and the survival of the U.S. economy. Kerry didn’t lose this election because of the way it was delivered, even Arianna Huffington can’t see this point. Although she comes close to padding the issues of campaign management (the typical mainstream media excuse for losing an election) she can’t see the secret hand-shake!

    In essence, whether there was a hand-shake, or whether the well meaning intentions of Kerry were buffed by some secret power play — there are serious reasons for his loss and the voting "coincidences" around the U.S. prove that Bush rigged the election.
    Kerry still has an opportunity to rise from the ashes. How he will rise from the ashes will obviously be by the people and a revolution, but only first by dethroning the king and standing for the rights he so fervently delivered in his speech. Change does not happen without revolution, and the war on Iraq is a diversion. We are a country now operating at an all-time dysfunctional agenda.

    Our priorities are :

    SEX, IBS, SEX, GUNS, SEX, DRUGS, SEX, Education, Banging, Banging more, Rape, Murder, AK40’s Rap, Gangs, Desperate Housewives, Fear Factor, Porn, more Porn, Amber Alerts, and oh yeah....GAS, and then the economy.

    This is brought about by advertisers. They are the control media that pumps what channel they want you the general public the be on. So if we want to pump the idea that everyone should be banging their brains out right now and that it’s abnormal not to bang twice a week, we get somebody like Dr. Phil to invade the living room of the housewife and put cameras in their homes to watch their every mover. We then say, "See, this is you, and you are being watched, and you’re not normal until Dr. Phil says you are."

    Meanwhile, Phil’s wife (who is the head-bobbing Stepford shadow of his Ego Self) is never a topic of discussion as she goes to work with him every day. Talk about a control freak! I was in those same shoes a very long time ago, she either has to be totally brainwashed, or she has absolutely nothing else to do but represent the housewives of America as a role model for non-existence.

    So the advertisers (something I’m not in the business of anymore due to my opinionated mind) must market something in order to make you feel more comfortable, more aware, more scared, more beautiful, more sexy, more insecure, more psychotic, more healthy, and unhealthy in order to increase their sales and stock value.

    Wars and Presidents are great stock tickers. They’re like betting on horses. The Presidency was a wager. How much would you bet Bush would win and those who didn’t were probably Kerry. So why the long face? Isn’t it sad that this is truly what Iraq is all about? Oil promoted as terrorism. If we left there tomorrow we could guard our borders, mind our own business, and sleep safer. But there are too many dirty connections with dictatorships and bartering of the worlds resources. If we never share the planet, we will never have peace.

    If you don’t believe that Bush stole the election..here’s some startling stats:
    http://bellaciao.org/en/article.php3?id_article=4175

    Notice that those who "thought" they voted for Bush in the Exit polls were conned by the machines that needed refreshing. (Similar to accessing a page many times and having it stall in your temporary file folder...no matter how many times you refresh the page if you don’t clean out your temp folder the page appears as if it’s still showing the same thing. ) In this case, what they were documenting as read-outs were false readings from former voters.

  • 5 November 2004, 19:40

    I lied to my exit poller. I ALWAYS lie to exit poll takers. It’s a secret ballot and I’d rather not be approached about it, but when I am I lie to them. My wife & some of my friends do too. As far as accuracy overall, they’re just a snapshot of part of the day at that particular polling station. That’s why we have elections unstead of just taking polls or statistical counts.

  • 5 November 2004, 21:52

    It’s not just paperless voting machines. The theft was organized on many fronts—fraudulent registration practices, voter intimidation and misinformation, too few machines (resulting in daylong lines), paper ballots (and reg forms) thrown out... To succeed, this investigation will have to cover all the channels of deceipt.

    mitch clogg, mitchc@mcn.org, www.newifstone.com
    Mendocino, CA

  • 5 November 2004, 22:24

    It’s certainly clear that the democrats conspired to subvert democracy by rigging exit polling, as has already been shown.

    Be careful with conspiracy theories. Sometimes the beam in one’s own eye is more important than the mote in the other guys.

  • 5 November 2004, 23:07

    WE HAVE BEEN TOLD THAT THERE WERE THOUSANDS OF ATTORNEYS THAT HAD BEEN TO
    ASSIGNED TO SEE THAT THERE WERE NOT TO BE ANY IRREGULARITES IN THE STATE OF
    FLORIDA FOR THIS YEARS NATIONAL ELECTIONS FOR PRESIDENT. WHERE WERE THEY.

  • 5 November 2004, 23:44

    I am not a conspiracy person but I am wondering about the grave discrepancy in the votes. Then to read about he Gahanna district! Something definitely is wrong but is there anything we can do about it?

  • 6 November 2004, 03:02

    Kerry , Mr "Help is on the Way" , didn’t say anything.

    We thought that with those 10,000 lawyers he had on hand that something was going to be done to at least look into things before conceding to President Bush.
    That appears to be a smokescreen, to give us false confidence. He is one of them, of course, nobody gets to run unless they pass the test of loyalty to the Elite who-ever-they-are-s.[NWO]

    So did Kerry ever intend to win? Or was he chosen specially to run against Bush? Post-election action seems to show that he isn’t fighting to win.

    The whole campaign was sorely short of good material. He could have used some of the material we all come across on the conspiracy of 9-11, for example "Why did building #7 fall down Mr President?"].
    Or ties to Bin Laden family - which may be innocent, but it could have changed voters minds about Bush.
    Or done some effort into showing the size of the deficit and debt and what that means for the next budget, and the long term.
    Or why not - Micheal Moore? They say anyone who watched the film would not vote Bush - and that is something to look into - how many saw the movie VS how many voters chose Bush... albiet not all viewers voted, but if half the nation saw the film and none voted Boosh, then Bush got more votes than possible. Silly notion that could not be used obviously, just one more indication, irregularity, to be all coincidence.

    So it was to be expected that Kerry would give in easily, with a fake show [the lawyers] of demands for honesty and clarity in the election results .

    A Canadian.

  • 6 November 2004, 03:15

    NEWSWEEK: NADER WAS RIGHT

    The Democrats didn’t need his help to lose the election. Kerry’s failure
    to address gay marriage was a fatal mistake

    My reply,
    That is nonsense. Kerry did not make any significant mistakes in his
    message and he got the majority of the votes nationally. The election
    was stolen, that’s the problem, the problem that dwarfs all others.
    Theft occurred in 2000 and is now the intended outcome of the 2008
    election. As I have said repeatedly in post after post, the
    crypto-fascists have taken over the United States government and they
    DON’T intend to ever relinquish power. We have just had demonstrable
    evidence of that fact.

    for the cause,

    Klo

  • 6 November 2004, 05:27

    You would think the mainstream media would think this worthwhile of comment wouldn’t you! Thats if they were not in the pockets of the same corrupt cabal!

  • 6 November 2004, 07:03

    You are all crazy. I have never seen such garbage as I have here. You are all acting like the exit polls are the actuall votes!!. They are not done in a scientific manor. They are not legal actual votes. Its funny how they all leaned to Kerry and then were leaked to the public. These exit poll s were suppose to be for the media only so they could make projections but they were leaked. Sounds like a good way to try and sway the voters for Kerry. Get us republicans disgusted so we give up. You people tried to do it in 2000 and again this time. Well it didnt work sorry. You can say all you want. But Kerry knows he lost and he conceeded. Too bad for you. No matter what happens now Bush is still our leader.And there os nothing your conspiracy theories can do to change that. If you but as much effort into yor lives as you do into your lies maybe you would not need John Kerry and his Liberal ways to support you. Go out and make some money. Its not that difficult I have done it. And i dont need some liberal socialist to support me. Get a life and stop spreading venom and hate.
    A proud Floridian and American

  • 6 November 2004, 08:37

    So is anyone with the money/power to have this investigated going to do anything?

  • 6 November 2004, 09:39

    Democrats can NEVER seem to accept that they

    LOST!

    Tough .... get over it.

    4 more years :)

  • 6 November 2004, 18:01

    yeah, funny how so many people lied to the exit polls in ohio and florida, but not other states.

    And why do all of the discrepancies favor bush- can you try to answer these two points with intelligence Mr. Repub?

  • 6 November 2004, 18:31

    "Those who cast the votes decide nothing.
    Those who count the votes decide everything."

    Josef Stalin

    "When the people fear the ‘government,’ that is tyranny.
    When the ‘government’ fears the people, that is liberty."

    Thomas Jefferson

    "The world is a dangerous place,
    not because of those who do evil,
    but because of those who look on and do nothing"

    Albert Einstein

    "Now those who seek absolute power, even though they seek it to do what they regard as good, are simply demanding the right to enforce their own version of heaven on earth, and let me remind you they are the very ones
    who always create the most hellish tyranny."

    Barry Goldwater

    "Why is this man in the White House? The majority of Americans did not vote for him. Why is he there? And I tell you this morning that
    he’s in the White House because God put him there for a time such as this."

    Lt Gen William Boykin,
    speaking of G. W. Bush,
    New York Times, 17 October 2003

    = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =

    "God gave the savior to the German people. We have faith, deep and unshakeable faith, that he was sent to us by God to save Germany."

    Hermann Goering,
    speaking of Hitler

    "... It is always a simple matter to drag people along whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. This is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in every country."

    Hermann Goering speaking at the Nuremberg trials.

    "If this were a dictatorship, it would be a heck of a lot easier - just so long as I’m the dictator."

    George W. Bush,
    18 December 2000

    "What a stupendous, what an incomprehensible machine is man! Who can endure toil, famine, stripes, imprisonment & death itself
    in vindication of his own liberty, and the next moment ... inflict on his fellow men a bondage, one hour of which is fraught with
    more misery than ages of that which he rose in rebellion to oppose."

    Thomas Jefferson

    "Our government has kept us in a perpetual state of fear - kept us in a continuous stampede of patriotic fervor-with the cry
    of grave national emergency. Always there has been some terrible evil at home or some monstrous foreign power that was going to gobble us up if we did not blindly rally behind it ..."

    General Douglas MacArthur, 1957

    "The job of a citizen is to keep his mouth open."

    Gunter Grass

    "It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."

    Voltaire

    "My kind of loyalty was to one’s country,not to its institutions or its officeholders. The country is the real thing, the substantial thing,
    the eternal thing; it is the thing to watch over, and care for, and be loyal to; institutions are extraneous, they are its mere clothing, and clothing can wear out, become ragged, cease to be comfortable, cease to protect
    the body from winter, disease, and death."

    Mark Twain

    "America’s leadership and prestige depend, not merely upon our unmatched material progress, riches and military
    strength, but on how we use our power in the interests of world peace and human betterment."

    Dwight D. Eisenhower

    "And we must be mindful that as we seek to win the war that we treat Arab Americans and Muslims with the respect they deserve. I know that is your attitudes, as well; it’s certainly the attitude of this government, that we should not hold one who is a Muslim responsible for an act of terror. We will hold those who are responsible for the terrorist acts accountable, and those who harbor them."

    George W. Bush Sept. 13th 1991 - Phone call to Mayor Giuliani & Gov Pataki

    Former senator Bob Kerrey (D-Neb.) one of the special commissioners investigating the Sept. 11 terror attacks, said he might quit the
    commission because "I am no longer ... feeling comfortable that I’m going to be able to read and process what I need in order to participate in writing a report about how it was that 19 men defeated every single defensive system the U.S. put up to kill 3,000 Americans on Sept. 11,"

    "Skull and Bones is probably the most successful elite network this country has. This is an organisation where members can
    call up presidents, supreme court judges and cabinet members, and ask for jobs, money and connections,"

    Alexandra Robbins, author of Secrets of the Tomb, an exposé of Yale’s secret societies.

    AJ: We’ll have to recap this when we start the next hour, but just in a nutshell, you have a lawsuit going, you’ve deposed a lot of military officers. You know the truth of 9/11. Just in a nutshell, what is your case alleging?

    SH: Our case is alleging that Bush and his puppets Rice and Cheney and Mueller and Rumsfeld and so forth, Tenet, were all involved not only in aiding and abetting and allowing 9/11 to happen but in actually ordering it to happen. Bush personally ordered it to happen. We have some very incriminating documents as well as eye-witnesses, that Bush personally ordered this event to happen in order to gain political advantage, to pursue a bogus political agenda on behalf of the neocons and their deluded thinking in the Middle East.
    I also wanted to point out that, just quickly, I went to school with some of these neocons. At the University of Chicago, in the late 60s with Wolfowitz and Feith and several of the others and so I know these people personally. And we used to talk about this stuff all of the time. And I did my senior thesis on this very subject [on] how to turn the U.S. into a presidential dictatorship by manufacturing a bogus Pearl Harbor event. So, technically this has been in the planning at least 35 years.

    Bob Dole’s former chief of staff: Stanley Hilton.

  • 6 November 2004, 18:51

    You say: "Although no one would dare accuse a President of setting the stage for war, no one ever thought that a President would steal an election right in front of the worlds eyes."

    Well... This site DOES accuse this president of just that.

    http://www.911research.wtc7.net/index.html

    I urge people to read the information very thouroughly. Again, even if only some of it is true, that is enough. Unless you are blind, it becomes very obvious, very quickly that 9/11 simply could not have occured the way it was portrayed. The part about Bush being involved is a bit more... out there, but there are facts that point to that as well.

  • 6 November 2004, 20:55

    well, right. the reasons you give explain why exit polls aren’t accurate. they have an estimated standard deviation, and what’s interesting in this case is that there are significant anomalies in the relationships between exit polls and reported votes ONLY in "swing" states, only in Bush’s favor, and only in areas where verification is impossible.

  • 6 November 2004, 21:01

    You have your own personal exit poller? I’ve been voting for over 40 years and I’ve never been exit polled. How many times did you vote on Tuesday?

  • 6 November 2004, 21:23

    Note to: "You are all crazy."

    We don’t just hate Bush... we HATE his enablers, we HATE his supporters and we HATE his sychophants, we HATE Repblicans! And now that includes YOU. Now we know who you are. Now we know where you live. SO from now on EVERY mysterious bump you hear in the night should be of great concern to you because one of those mysterious bumps may be the last sound you hear. EVER. THIS is the state of "America" in 2004 because of Bush and his gang of organized criminals. BE careful what you wish for... you may get it. Now you have your crypto- fascist state. Welcome to Bush’s fascist America. Be afraid. Be very afraid.

  • 6 November 2004, 22:33

    We accepted it when we found out nader cheated did we not?

  • 7 November 2004, 00:52

    Your grammar, spelling and (lack of) punctuation is typical of the people who voted for Bush.

  • 7 November 2004, 01:31

    Now I see why Bush was SO certain he was going to win... I hope somebody besides Ralph Nader pushes for an investigation. There’s definitely something wrong with the election result!

    If a probable fraud like this goes unchallenged, the same thing will happen in 2008...

    Indeed, it’s quite suspicious how the republicans are trying to smokescreen the problem by badmouthing the exit polls — which have been around for ages —, instead of supporting a long overdue assessment of these electronic voting machines.

  • 7 November 2004, 03:30

    You could simply refuse to answer, but no you lie. I’m sure Georgie Bush’s God will bless you forever. You’ve single-handedly figured out how all the exit polls were rigged. God bless you again. But you forgot to mention that there are statistically more liars in the states with no paper trail compared with the states with paper trails. You’ve solved the mystery for me and I believe you because I really, really, really, really think you’re telling the truth now and you usually ALWAYS lie to exit poll takers. Is that the only time you lie?

  • 7 November 2004, 04:19

    I say kill the bastards and let the revolution begin.
    It is our right and our duty.

  • 7 November 2004, 05:15

    Of course the election was stolen / Fixed , do you expect anything less from a Goverment gone wild. I love this country heart and soul , but I hate what this goverment has become with a passion. I have NO trust in anything this Goverment says or does and I see a total POLICE STATE in our near future , were almost there now. With the passing of the Patriot Act ( should have been named the Treason Act ) the stage is set for Martial Law and the end of life as we know it. Find people you can trust with your life, keep them close, and prepare for what is to come. Learn basic survival techniques, learn to shoot, put survival items together and store away to take at a moments notice, have a safe place for family / friends to meet ( outside of town if possible ) to keep confusion and searching for them to a minimum. Remember, you’ll be up against people who think they are doing right, they are just following orders, but those orders will be from a corrupt goverment and should’nt be followed. I’m a veteran and took a oath to defend this country against all enemies foriegn and DOMESTIC, even if that Enemy is the President of the United States. History will show who the real PATRIOTS are.

  • 7 November 2004, 05:47

    I thought it strange, too, that Kerry reversed his vow to "count every vote...." then a few hrs. later decided to concede. I was devastated and very puzzled; this did not sound right: 10,000 lawyers, no one wanted to check the validity of the voting machines & other tactics used from denying registrations, to intimidation of eligible voters. I don’t tend to go for conspiracy theories, but was wondering, too, if Kerry was not part of a plot by the dark vedas who are really running the world. This would seem absurb, but it seems something happened, something perverse, that made him change his mind and "giving up." I think he owes it to the people who worked so hard to have him elected to join us in the investigation of this massive voter fraud. Why should we care, when he doesn’t seem to????? Odd.
    Rena W., Asheville, N.C.

  • 7 November 2004, 06:04

    Read this story

    http://www.ilcaonline.org...

    and thoroughly look at the results of the 04 presidential election in Florida. For example, out of the 440 registered REP and 2755 registered DEM in the county of Lafayette county, 2460 voted REP and 845 voted DEM. Similarly look at the counties of Calhoun, Dixie, Liberty, and dozens other small counties - the expected vote has completely flipped for the REPs. Take a look at this chart based on 100% of the votes recieved

    http://ustogether.org/Florida_Election.htm

    pay attention to the percent change of expected votes based on party affiliation and the actual turnout (in the left columns). However, this flip in the voting pattern doesnt occur in counties with 30,000+ registered voters. I assume they expected us not to notice the smaller counties.

    Everyone including pollsters expected a much closer race in Florida and were suprised by the results of the election

    WE HAVE MAJOR VOTER FRAUD IN FLORIDA

    I beg of the media to take notice of this

  • 7 November 2004, 07:11

    You are all idiots. Everyone knows in the North Florida counties, many registered Democrats are conservatives dating back decades but who vote Republican. It’s like the Reagan Democrats popularized in Michigan. Their families have been Democrat for decades, but they’re arch conservatives.

    Your messages lack any background on how people behave in the state.

  • 7 November 2004, 13:04

    No you lost. We won. Save your bull crap about being a whiner because this time we have proof. The person with the most votes won. His name is John Kerry. This was the biggest organized crime in the history of the country.

  • 7 November 2004, 15:02

    How the hell do you "subvert democracy" by rigging an exit poll, ferchrissakes? What difference does it make to anyone anywhere in the country if an exit poll gives the wrong result?

  • 7 November 2004, 15:04

    Dude — that’s what an election is — a hidden poll - there is no difference. You may lie to your exit poller — but that’s accounted for in the .1 to .2 discrepency that traditionally occurs. It is statistically unlikely in the extreme however that suddenly, after decades of working, exit polls have become unreliable only in swing states using new technologies. Your argument is effectively white noise — there is no way that any of my Republican friends would believe it if what happened were happening in reverse, I don’t believe it now.

    Regards,

    Reynolds C. Jones
    Schenectady, NY

  • 7 November 2004, 15:13

    The republican party is all about the fear and the greed. They’ll fear monger till the cows come home. Their messages this time around: "The gay’s are commin ta get ya! Lookout!" And "Bin Laden’s still on the loose, he’s commin ta get ya! Lookout!" Bush painted himself as the savior. Save us from the gays, Bush. Save us from Bin Laden.

    Then there’s the greed. People who are doing better than the average Joe and want to make sure they can keep avoiding taxes by taking "large pay cuts" in favor of mostly untaxed dividends. Bush cut taxes, but I don’t feel that on MY check each month. The middle class (me) always bears the brunt of the tax burden.

    What I don’t get is this, the dumbass is spending like there’s no tomorrow. He shows NO signs of veto-ing a single spending bill. We’re going bankrupt and the so-called economic smarty-pants voted him in because of their extremely short-sighted greed.

    They’re all willing to sell tomorrow to reap today. Screw the kids, they can fix our f*ck up when the grow up. We’ll all be dead and gone, so who cares?

  • 7 November 2004, 15:17

    There is nothing insane about being concerned about clean elections. Though you may not recall it — one Florida senatorial election, not so long ago — was switched by the court when the level of corruption was discovered. Remember? Those things need to be prevented in advance, and they only will if such pressure builds for clean elections that we actually start having them.

    As to your argument on venom. What exactly is it that you think Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity, and dozens upon dozens of others spew? What exactly do you think is spewed from over a thousand radio stations in the US devoted to either right wing talk radio or the religious right?

    As for freedom. Are you then, this moment, ready to absolutely declare your complete 100% support for liberal churches like my own that support gay marriage? Are you willing to admit that it is within our freedom of religion and should not be interfered with by the Federal Government? Or do you only recognize and respect freedom of religion if its on your side?

    As for money and work. That is a bizarre attack. We are 38 and 30 — we’ve been together 12 years. I’m willing to happily compare our income level with the income level enjoyed by your wife and yourself at the same point in your lives, or an equivalent. Likewise, I’m more than willing to compare the level of work we’ve committed in our lives to date.

    Are you willing? Email me directly at radagast_23@yahoo.com. I’m willing to back anything I say up with copies of our tax forms (our address blotted out of course). Are you willing to do the same?

    Regards,

    Reynolds Jones
    Schenectady, NY

  • 7 November 2004, 15:42

    and how exactly did you lie? did you fill out the form misleadingly or did you just lie to their face? (and btw, did you vote for someone who lies?)

  • 7 November 2004, 20:05

    Excellent conclusion!

  • 7 November 2004, 21:33

    Those #s are with 98.6% of the vote in- numbers taken from official state site

    http://ustogether.org/Florida_Election.htm

    here is a graph highlighting the discrepancies in found only in florida optical scan counties, whose votes are counted by central tabulator, connected to a modem- this tabulator is just a windows pc!!! a hacker’s dream.

    

    how likely is this- bush wins in a landslide with half of the area democrats voting for him- why did dems in op-scan counties switch to bush, but not in touchscreen counties? maybe they just reversed the results- sure would be easy

    is there anyone in florida that can get us some hard proof that these #s are a lie- perhaps drive around the neighborhoods and ask the folks if that’s how they really voted. with that kind of majority- it must be easy to find droves of bush lovers.... or not. maybe drive thru one of these counties with eminem’s mosh blasting and the masses will come out in full force... a la the mosh video

    more florida graphs at the source:

    http://www.rubberbug.com/temp/Florida2004chart.htm

  • 8 November 2004, 22:19

    Democrats won’t get over it. Republicans would love that. After all they have steadily eroded the rights and privaleges previous Americans have fought and died for. This is the same party that years ago brought you the carpet baggers, the scaliwags, who fought against the reconstruction of the South, and was indirectly responsible for the Klan. Democrats and true blue Americans who believe in the Constitution and the Bill of Rights not only have the right to question these election results but the duty to do so.

  • 9 November 2004, 02:27

    Considering these facts:
    – Bush sat in a class for 7 minutes during the 9/11 attacks
    – Bush and Co lied to start an unjust war
    – up to 100,000 innocents dead
    – millions of jobs lost
    – the national debt up $2 trillion, the dollar is tanking and to top it off....
    – Bush embarrassed himself and the nation during the ’debates’ - especially the first when he was really, really stupid.

    which of these graphs makes more sense- the one above showing half of registered democrats voting for Bush, or this one

    

    that shows kerry winning in some precincts 97-2 % !!! I happened to download this leon county pdf

    http://www.co.leon.fl.us/elect/results/2004gsovc.pdf

    and was looking at the precinct by precinct results and was pleased to find results with Bush losing by huge numbers- it proves that (at least in some locations) Americans are not as stupid as the media tells us.

    These numbers are the worst, which (coincidentally?) happen to occur at the lowest precinct numbers. These are the first 23 results on the page, and they are by far the worst. After this all the numbers are closer to the ’acceptable range’. Anyone out there from Leon County Florida... what makes precincts 1200-1500 different than the rest of the county?

    Check out these results- all with Bush losing big:
    – 486 - 12
    – 950 - 23
    – 1434 - 109
    – 988 - 23

    Maybe some news channel can drive down to leon county and interview the people there... why are they such Bush haters?

  • 9 November 2004, 20:39

    Hello, Leon County is tallahassee florida. that is where i live. i’d have to assume those precincts are probably largely african american and or student areas.
    overall in leon county the election was not THAT much of a landslide. only 64% bush.
    though, leon county is historicly liberal.

  • 10 November 2004, 00:18

    And what of John Edwards? Why was he so "behind the scenes" in this campaign? He hardly showed up after the 1st week of photo ops. Along the lines of "Kerry in on the fix," maybe the poor bastard Edwards was like the Tom Cruise character in The Firm. Gets his dream job, only to find out that he’s in bed with crooks—and he can’t get out alive! Unlike the movies, Edwards simply gives it the old college try out of fear, but is too disgusted to go all out.

  • 10 November 2004, 07:42

    I don’t accept the election results. The Republicans had the means, the motive, the desperation - and a Machiavellian architect to execute them. I will NEVER accept these lies that are being asserted as truth. Eventually the truth will come out, and it will be UGLY. In the end, it is truth which will set you free, baby, not lies asserted as truth!

    So get over that. You may find find yourself wishing in four years that things would be as good as they are now.

  • 11 November 2004, 00:15

    first off, what the fuck were you doing lying at an exit poll?! how does that help anything?! and why is the only republican on this message board, the only guy that "lied" AT THE EXIT POLL?! another thing, why do republicans and "moderate" democrats always say that these "conspiracy" theories are hard to believe, but they never provide hard proof?! all i hear is that michael moore "distorts" things. even from a friend of mine who only watches mainstream news, said he’s heard through "experts" that michael moore distorts the facts. yet, whenever he brings up an example of moore’s distortion, i research it, and it ends up not to be a distortion.
    SO, to the idiot retard who "LIED" at the exit polls, why don’t YOU bring us some researched facts to prove to us that there wasn’t cheating in this election that skewed the vote towards Bush instead of writing our factual claims off as conspiratorial. I guarantee we’ll FACTUALLY disprove any evidence you bring without much effort.
    we’re not gonna give up on the truth just because it sounds conspiratorial. ever think that republicans conspire all the time. the proof is astounding! astounding! just because the mainstream media doesn’t show the shocking facts, or kerry is too weak to talk about them, doesn’t mean they’re not facts...you retard. what kind of dumbass lies at an exit poll?! it shows you’re lack of logic.

  • 11 November 2004, 02:37

    Please Lord, If this election was again stolen don’t let them get away with it not again. Please, Please I am begging somebody do something before its too late.

  • 11 November 2004, 22:31

    You silly misguided Republican, just because you can’t see the forest for the trees doesn’t mean that other opinions aren’t valid. I am a liberal democrat that makes close to 200K per year, I vote democrat because I believe they actually value life and don’t pretend to value life just to get the anti-choice vote. Here are a few quotes for you to consider. I hope you’re happy with your president.

    "God gave the savior to the German people. We have faith, deep and unshakeable faith, that he was sent to us by God to save Germany."

    Hermann Goering, speaking of Hitler

    "... It is always a simple matter to drag people along whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. This is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in every country."

    Hermann Goering speaking at the Nuremberg trials.

  • 15 November 2004, 04:36

    yeah, but only 2% ! that’s insane, has any candidate ever scored so low?

    i don’t know... did nixon and reagan only get 2% in some places?

  • 15 November 2004, 07:49

    This site tries to consolidate all the arguments and counter-arguments:

    http://thesquanderer.com/votingmachines

  • 3 February 2005, 20:04

    Ever notice how Democrats always have a lot of bitching to do, but never any solutions to problems?

• 5 November 2004, 17:30

  This is disturbing. But please tell me where you got the data for the bar graphs from. Primary sources are key to pushing the story into the mainstream media!

  • 6 November 2004, 18:26

    Blue Lemur has the early poll numbers, but it’s not very official looking.
    http://www.bluelemur.com/...

    But for further proof here is an AP story blaming bloggers for trusting the early poll numbers- proving that there were early numbers favoring kerry.
    http://news.yahoo.com/news...

    "Doing an early poll is like reporting the results of the game at halftime," Lenski said. "You only have about a third of the information. No other survey research is held to that level of accuracy."

    Then we have the proof (screenshots) of CNN changing their poll numbers in the middle of the night- click link in article above

    And then most damning is this NY Times article from October:
    Exit Polls to Protect the Vote
    http://www.nytimes.com/...

    So the exit polls are there to ensure the vote, but if they’re off it’s just a fluke? Why would anyone believe anything this administration has to say... the whole world knows they lied to start this evil war, and now our alternative Anybody But Bush belives them without question- with 250,000 votes nots counted he caves in and tells us all to get in line behind this village idiot taking the world toward destruction?

    Bob Fertik seems to be doing a good job covering the vote fraud as well
    http://democrats.com/

    Hey Europeans- please help us expose this scam, make it international news that cannot be ignored. We must expose this before ’the next attack’ because exposing it will prevent the next attack as it’d be too obvious who will benefit from it.

• 5 November 2004, 18:25

  Ben,

  Keep thinking like this. You may find out who really killed JFK.

  • 6 November 2004, 19:43

    lol- we already know that, and it’s that same evil cabal that is stealing this election.

    – 1961 In his farewell speech Eisenhower warns America about the ’Military Industrial Complex’ gaining too much control and endangering our liberties.
    – 1963 Kennedy signs order to withdraw troops from Vietnam
    – 1963 20 some days later JFK asassinated (not by lee harvey oswald)
    – 1967 MLK changes from just civil rights movement to anti-war as well
    – 1968 MLK shot 1 month before Bobby Kennedy

    You say i’m a conspiracy ’theorist’, i say the conspiracies are real- i have proof to back me up, you have name calling.

    See this close-up slow motion video of JFK’s asassination (graphic) but very telling. First shot thru the back, next shot from the right front hits JFK in the right temple.

    http://fluxview.com/v/ZapruderKennedyAssasination-SlowMo.avi

    Undeniable proof of a 2nd shooter... but i’m still nuts... because you saw the computer-animated re-enactment on ABC tv and they must be telling the truth, right? It’s not like they’re a multinational corparation that is profitting from the unjust policies of our fascist dictator.

    re: the video proof- the link is down at the moment, hopefully the site will be up later so just save the link and try again tomorrow. and you might need to download this codec, but it’s well worth it to prove to yourself and friends that this conspiracy was/is real
    http://www.divx.com/divx/download/

    since the video link is down i have provided this screenshot- notice JFK’s head has fallen to the left from the force of impact on his right temple.... clearly not a shot from the back.

    

• 5 November 2004, 18:37

  Let’s assume youre right . . . God bless america.... Maybe it’s just God’s way of making sure we don’t elect an idiot like kerry!!

  • 7 November 2004, 06:29

    How unAmerican to condone voter fraud as God’s way...and blasphemous, too. Shame on you!

  • 7 November 2004, 07:26

    Your suggesting GOD helped republicans CHEAT? Well if God doesn’t believe in democracy then I don’t either. Now we are free to march forth and smite our enemies! Right on! Death to the infidels! Ummmm which God, btw?

  • 7 November 2004, 15:18

    You cannot possibly be serious.

    Regards,

    Reynolds Jones
    Schenectady, NY

  • 8 November 2004, 20:26

    God helps those who help themselves.

• 5 November 2004, 19:28

  Please post the sources for your data. I’m going to email your graphs to everyone I know as soon as I’ve double-checked your sources.

• 5 November 2004, 20:19

  Something is very wrong with the results in many Florida Counties that used touchscreen voting. It appears that the results for Bush mirror the expected results for Kerry and the percentage of registered democrats. In other words, it appears that the votes for Bush and Kerry were switched. The most glaring are in the following counties.

  Baker
  Bradford
  Calhoun
  DeSoto
  Dixie
  Columbia
  Duval
  Gilchrist
  Gulf
  Hardee
  Hendry
  Holmes
  Lafayette
  Levy
  Putnam
  Suwannee
  Taylor
  Union
  Wakulla
  Washington

  Look at the figures on this table (http://ustogether.org/Florida_Election.htm) and compare the actual votes to the expected votes and percentage of registrations in these counties. This cannot be coincidence. These results were switched.

• 5 November 2004, 21:21

  If Kerry really wanted to fight for us, this was the moment to prove it- all sorts of irregularities combined with Republican goons intimidating voters in poor neighborhoods left the door wide open for a challenge. He could have proven himself worthy of being President by fighting for the millions Bush has screwed over. Instead, he proved something else- that the ’conspiracy theorists’ were right all along- he was just part of the Skull and Bones NWO script.

  

  Why was he scripted to lose? Because they need the right wing wackos behind Bush and the next war. If it were Kerry in the Whitehouse, he wouldn’t have the support of the ’Christian’ right wing and the Global Holy War the neocons are trying to start would lose it most fervent backers. They want to continue installing the police state with more government spying, checkpoints, random searches, national id cards- total big brother. But with the right wing hatred of Kerry, they couldn’t continue taking us down that path- that’s why it was predetermined for Bush to win.

• 5 November 2004, 21:37

  I have been a regular voter and have voted at the same precinct for 13 years. The poll workers there know me and know I vote regularly. Weren’t we all surprised when my name and my husbands name had disappeared from the register this year. I am a registered democrat from Allegheny County (Pittsburgh, PA). As of yet my provisional ballot has not been counted as I am tracking it. I am considering filing a lawsuit. Although PA went blue, I seriously doubt that it was as close as the results show.

  • 7 November 2004, 00:31

    I hope you do continue to pursue justice in this. Many Americans are horrified by this outrage and need to make themselves heard. It may be our last chance to be effective in the defense of our Democracy.

    Ralph Nader is launching lawsuits to bring some sunshine to what happened to us, and I suggest you record your experience on his website.

    This article will chill your soul:

    http://www.baltimoresun.com...

    An Election Day clouded by doubt

    By Avi Rubin
    Originally published October 27, 2004

    ABOUT 50 MILLION Americans will cast their ballots for president on touch-screen terminals Tuesday.
    If my experience as an election judge is any guide, voters will love these machines, which are generally easy to use and which easily accommodate voters who have disabilities or do not speak English.

    And if my experience as a computer scientist is any guide, those voters will not realize just how dangerous it is to rely on these machines to conduct a free and fair election with a reliable result.

    Voting on a direct recording electronic voting machine, or DRE, is in many ways similar to transferring money from one account to another at an automated teller machine. But there is one critically important difference: no receipt. There will be no physical record produced that could later be used by your local election board to prove how you intended to vote.

    After you cast your ballot on a DRE, the only official record of your choices will be the electronic record within the system itself. You will not be asked to look at a piece of paper that confirms your candidate selections. You will not leave that piece of paper behind for use in case of a recount.

    Why is this a problem?

    Without paper ballots that can be physically examined, the only recount possible is a review of the votes recorded by the DRE system itself. And if those votes were recorded incorrectly, no recount will fix the error. The incorrect result could never be detected, much less corrected.

    And incorrect results are entirely possible. Largely because of Florida’s problems in 2000, there has been a headlong rush nationwide to adopt DRE voting. Touch screens will be used in this election despite numerous studies, by my colleagues and me and by others, showing that the machines from the leading manufacturer, Diebold Election Systems, are poorly designed, with lax security and programming errors.

    All of Maryland except Baltimore City will be using the Diebold AccuVote-TS machines. Nationwide, about one-third of all ballots will be cast electronically.

    Technical glitches and malfunctioning machines - the kinds of problems that occur with any computer system - could result in the loss of votes in unrecoverable ways. Worse, these fully electronic machines could be rigged - undetectably, because of the complexity of the software that runs them.

    While we can never eliminate the possibility of tampering with elections, the impact of an attack on a DRE system would likely be more serious than the results of tampering with traditional mechanical voting machines or paper-based systems, such as optically scanned ballots. This is because a bug in the software of an electronic voting system, whether accidental or intentional, has the potential to skew results in more than an isolated polling place or two. It could impact the vote totals on many thousands of machines in hundreds of precincts.

    Elections, by their nature, are adversarial. In a successful election, the loser should be as convinced as the winner that the outcome is legitimate, despite the potentially strong party loyalties of the people running the mechanics of the process.

    One of our safeguards in the United States is that members of the two principal parties are present to watch each other through every facet of an election. The utility of this security measure is diminished when the votes are invisible and the counting is virtual. DREs reduce the transparency of the voting process, and traditional checks and balances become ineffective.

    Even if, on Wednesday, this election appears to have been a success, there will be no way of knowing for sure whether the will of the people was accomplished.

    And even if there is no problem Tuesday, that does not imply that the election was secure - only that no one chose that day to exploit the insecurity. If an apparent success in November leads to greater adoption of fully electronic voting in the future, then subsequent elections will be even more vulnerable, providing increased incentive to attackers and, at the same time, more avenues for attack.

    For voters to have confidence in the election process, it should be as transparent as possible. When technology that is inherently opaque is used in elections, peoples’ confidence in the process will be justifiably shaken.

    There are ways in which DREs provide an apparent advantage over butterfly ballots and hanging chads. But there are other ways in which these systems, implemented without voter-approved paper ballots that allow meaningful recounts, are potentially much worse.

    Our goal should be voting technology that is beyond reproach. That goal may never be fully attainable, but we must do better than this. The foundation of our democracy is at stake, and thus, ultimately, so is our freedom.

    Avi Rubin is a professor of computer science at the Johns Hopkins University.

    Copyright © 2004, The Baltimore Sun

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    TrueVoteList@mail.truevotemd.org
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• 5 November 2004, 22:16

  I am amazed and gratified to find that my suspicions are shared by so many others.
  Two years ago, just prior to the gubernatorial election in Florida, Jeb Bush was supposedly running scared to death and his Democratic opponent was salivating over a universally anticipated victory. That isn’t how it went down however. And the "shock and awe" that followed was manifested in stunned silence. We losers couldn’t believe it, but to suspect foul play would have been so far out as to make us question our sanity. What we need now is some honest to God Whistleblowers with irrefutable proof.

• 5 November 2004, 23:10

  For this to be effective, I need to see ALL of the states. I can’t convince the die hard Repubs here that this is a true representation of the whole country.

  Please, how do I get the rest of the states? Do you have that information?

  Sincerely,

  Travis Ploeger
  bkynplague@hotmail.com

  • 6 November 2004, 18:23

    These graphs (I believe) were originally posted on the democraticunderground blog (look for a thread started by faun). She has (original) exit poll data for a lot of states.

• 6 November 2004, 00:56

  There’s a nationwide Election Protection Coalition database documenting these 2004 voting irregularities available at http://voteprotect.org

• 6 November 2004, 01:03

  Those bar graphs could be improved a bit. There might be a better way to represent that data...

  Create a table with 4 columns:

  1. State

  2. Percent advantage for Kerry in exit polls (negative if Bush leads poll)

  3. Percent advantage for Kerry in actual results

  4. Difference between #2 and #3.

  Show positive numbers as blue bars, negative numbers as red bars, and sort the whole thing by the last column.

  That would make it easier to see at a glance which states have the greatest discrepancies.

• 6 November 2004, 01:43

  What is the source of the raw data for these charts?

• 6 November 2004, 01:58

  Whoever wrote this article is a total idiot.

• 6 November 2004, 03:17

  Too many "irregularities" in this so called story (more like a work of fiction).
  On your #3 point...Ohio doesn’t use Diebold voting machines. More than 75% of the state uses punch card or optical scan ballots. The counties where Cleveland and Columbus are, as well as a few other counties, do use electronic machines...but they aren’t made by Diebold and certainly are not new!

  • 6 November 2004, 18:25

    Optical scan votes are COUNTED by Diebold machines.

    "Those who vote decide nothing. Those who count the votes decide everything."
    - Joseph Stalin

• 6 November 2004, 04:23

  No surprise here - my only questions are... How can we get our average-kinda-middle-of-the road Americans to take notice? and if all else fails... Is there any place safe to run to?
  p.s. Ever hear the "Steppenwolf" song "Monster"? "America, where are you now? We can’t stand alone against the Monster!"

• 6 November 2004, 05:25

  corrected link for the Gahanna PDF file

  http://www.franklincountyohio.gov/...

• 6 November 2004, 06:00

  The first 10 Florida counties voted GB & KE and party registration as of close 10/4/04 got 28% Republican registration into a vote of 43% for Bush; but 82% Democratic registration only got Kerry 35% in Calhoun County for instance but 12% Rebulican registration got Bush 63%. Is the untold story of the election that failure of the Democratic party to get out the Florida Dems or fraud? The other 67 Florida counties show similar results. You call it. Or is it Ralph Reed’s Christian Colalition company owed voting computers?

  County (BC)  % REG’D (KE)  % REG’D

  Alachua 100.00% 47,615 43% 28% 62,348 56% 51%

  Baker 100.00% 7,738 78% 24% 2,180 22% 69%

  Bay 100.00% 53,388 71% 39% 21,058 28% 44%

  Bradford 100.00% 7,553 70% 28% 3,244 30% 61%

  Brevard 100.00% 152,838 58% 45% 110,153 42% 37%

  Broward 100.00% 243,118 35% 27% 451,521 64% 50%

  Calhoun 100.00% 3,780 63% 12% 2,116 35% 82%

  Charlotte 100.00% 44,402 56% 45% 34,227 43% 32%

  Citrus 100.00% 39,498 57% 41% 29,274 42% 39%

  Clay 100.00% 61,881 76% 57% 18,905 23% 26%

  other conties show the same results.
  J.

• 6 November 2004, 06:53

  I’m pretty sure that this is the process that precedes a totally facist state.... either that or a civil war...

• 6 November 2004, 08:27

  Please... if you want the progressive cause to be taken seriously just admit an honest defeat. In any given election their are so many numbers/polls to be played with any number of coincidental data could look conspiratorial. Nevermind that Democrats themselves are hardly innocent of voter fraud, Nixon in Illinois in ’60 and John Thune in 2002 are pretty indisputable incidents of this, however much better for the progressive cause it might been for them to lose, it would be hard to say they lost honestly. But as long as the progressive cause is mired in this conspiratorial nonsense it will easily be dissmissed.

  • 6 November 2004, 18:34

    1. Please don’t call Democrats Progressive. What a joke. Okay, compared to the Rove/Robertson axis, maybe but please.

    2. More and more people are becoming suspicious — not convinced — that something fishy went on with the electronic voting and counting machines. Before the election, it’s likely that a lot of them thought that the anti-electronic voting activists were just a bit alarmist. Speaking for myself, I’m much more concerned about assuring and protecting fair and free elections than I am about overturning any one "result".

    If the Bush supporters are so confident that they kicked such ass, why do they seem to be the most resistant to looking into this stuff?

    JTCA

  • 6 November 2004, 18:34

    1. Please don’t call Democrats Progressive. What a joke. Okay, compared to the Rove/Robertson axis, maybe but please.

    2. More and more people are becoming suspicious — not convinced — that something fishy went on with the electronic voting and counting machines. Before the election, it’s likely that a lot of them thought that the anti-electronic voting activists were just a bit alarmist. Speaking for myself, I’m much more concerned about assuring and protecting fair and free elections than I am about overturning any one "result".

    If the Bush supporters are so confident that they kicked such butt, why do they seem to be the most resistant to looking into this stuff?

    JTCA

  • 7 November 2004, 04:15

    I say kill the bastards and let the revolution begin.

  • 7 November 2004, 15:30

    I disagree

    1. The Right has never admitted a defeat, I listened to enough of Limbaugh and other Right Wingers during the Clinton years to know that. Is it sleaze? Yes. Is it necessary for the base? Yes. Is our base different from theirs? *shrug*

    2. Your mindset, in all honestly, precludes facing the possibility of real fraud. I guarded a poll in Cleveland, together with a fine young attorney from NY. We saved, in one way or another, 3 votes — at one small polling location. To save one of them, she had to take the woman in question and drive to Election HQ. We saw no actual fraud at our location. Does that mean that I should discount the possibility of fraud at other locations? Not if I’m a thinking person. Had we not been there, three people would not have voted — and that was on the antiquated punch card ballots.

    3. Statistical analysis strongly indicates that fraud is more likely than a genuine win. While it is easier to say "oh, we lost, we should give up." that accomplishes nothing if in fact this is a case of fraud. As for Nixon and Thune — I don’t believe that either one was any more, or as much — indicative of fraud as 2000 and this present election are — and I do not think that the progressive cause would have been better served by having them win. Please explain your reasoning.

    Of course I admit, I’m not a "progressive," I’m an old fashioned f**ing liberal leftist, thank you.

    Regards,

    Reynolds Jones
    Schenectady, NY

• 6 November 2004, 08:33

  Obviously Jeb delivered another election for Bushco....but now that that is how our banana republic elections are going to be conducted I guess we can just forget about voting like the other half of the country...But more importantly I think every American should join with me to have the constitution corrected to have the part about Seperation of Church and State dropped from it....I think it is time to own up to the fact that we have a theocracy here and just stop kidding everyone about the "Seperation of Church and State", I am sure all "Christians" would agree as well as all "liberals" who can see that there isn’t any need to be ridiculous by keeping this meaningless phrase in the document we are all agreeing to live by....

  • 8 November 2004, 20:36

    A plutocracy that pays lip-service to God does not a theocracy make.

• 6 November 2004, 12:23

  This is so serious. It is the death of democracy if the winner of an election can be programmed ahead of time. Is this the kind of democracy that the United States is trying to ’sell’ to the rest of the world? PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE keep investigating this fraud for the sake of the world, not just the United States.

  If you let this go, you have lost your country forever. Will they ever go back to having traceable voting. As they have the power I am sure they won’t.

• 6 November 2004, 14:15

  I am in agreement with you. This country is going backwards. For the second time, Bush did not win the race but is going to be in office. No newspaper seems to think that this is the bigs story. In other country civial war breaks out because of things like this. The the basis of our democracy is tainted because of the cheating that has occurred during the last two elections.

• 6 November 2004, 17:01

  For more links, check out "The election that never was" on https://www.treehousehero.com

• 6 November 2004, 17:17

  While it is very interesting to speculate that exit polls were accurate in states with paper ballots and inaccurate in states with electronic voting, I am a little skeptical because the charts here only show the data for 9 states, and it would be too easy for someone to pick just the results that supported his theory. I would like to see the charts for all 50 states; or at the least, more of the states that were considered "in play"... Virginia, Colorodo, Iowa, Nevada, Michigan, West Virginia, Missouri, Arkansas, Arizona, New Jersey...

  • 6 November 2004, 18:31

    I agree with you

• 6 November 2004, 17:28

  Exit polls are not defined in any election statutes. It was a devious little plot by the Dems to suppress the pro-Bush voters by making the election look like it was J. Fraud Kerry’s early on.

  Didn’t work, though, did it? Please, please keep on whining.....it provides the MAJORITY of us with hilarious entertainment. You losers are a riot.

  See you in 4 where we’ll make mincemeat of the Hildabeast.

  XXXXXXOOOOO

  Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha !!!!!

  • 6 November 2004, 18:40

    The election was stolen, the exit polls all showed Bush was getting his ass kicked. I’ve been voting for 24 years now and it amazes me that exit polls were always accurate in forcasting election results, but since the Bush cabal came on the scene starting in Florida in 2000, exit polls are no longer reliable. Instead we are told to trust the vote tallies of voting machines that are owned and operated by religious groups that would stop at nothing to get their Bush God re-selected. What was it that the Ohio secretary of state who is also assistant Bush campain manager AND Dibold voting machine executive said just before the election? That he would do
    everything in his power to deliver Ohio’s votes to Bush. And deliver he did through a combination of voiding both spoilage votes from prodominatly black voting districts still using punch cards ballots and provisional ballots,and voting machine fraud. This is how Bush got his magical 5 point bump from what the exit polls showed in all the swing states.Hey I have a great idea, how about a civil war, left vs. right? That’s one war that I would be happy to fight.

  • 6 November 2004, 19:08

    lol- has anyone here seen an actual intelligent argument from a bush supporter? It seems that every Bush supporter has nothing intelligent to say, just stupid comments, you sore losers etc.

    If they were real Americans, they would be concerned about their team having to intimidate voters in poor counties to win. Are you proud that in rural republican states there are no lines to votes, but in cities where many poor minorities live they were forced to wait in line for up to six hours, someitmes in the pouring rain?

    An honest American would want to win fair and square, not like these PAID FREEPERS whose job is to ridicule. HA HA look at my tinfoil hat- when i look at the actual vote tally pdf from franklin county ohio, it shows 4,258 votes for Bush when no other vote had nearly that many... even CNN picked up this story.

    if kerry won by a hair, would bush have just given up even though there were tons of ’irregularities’? Would karl rove just give up like that? no way. skull and bones is not just a conspiracy theory anymore.

  • 6 November 2004, 21:00

    these people miss the soviet union so much they decided to remake it in our country.

  • 6 November 2004, 21:28

    Yeah, you keep telling yourself that Dems are the only ones involved in devious little plots because that’s the self-righteous denial mantra of the right.

    Your post only reinforced why I’m a Dem as it was the most juvenile, inane, immature load of crap I’ve heard in days (and that’s saying something). Whether the theories are correct or not, you only served in revealing yourself as a moron. Perhaps if you had spent more time reading some facts instead of typing that idiotic "ha, ha" over and over (you DO seem to have too much time on your hands - was the lunch rush over at McDonald’s?) we could actually have something to debate about here. We ALL live in this country whether you like it or not and that kind of attitude isn’t helping us solve anything. What’s next? You’ll call us "poo-poo heads"???

  • 7 November 2004, 03:36

    Why does it seem like every single post from Republicans on this thread is mean and nasty? Don’t you have something better to do like go to a Republican site and sit and gloat about your bought election. This was the closest presidental race since 1916. This wasn’t the majority chosing Bush this was America divided. Half the American population wants his ass out of office. While I think it is important to continue to fight for any misconduct at the polls I also think now Bush gets to figure out how the hell to deal with Iraq and guess what now he gets to clean up his own mess or fall on his face. He can’t blame Kerry for the war he started and chances are as the Iraq mess gets worse and we spend more and more money on it, the American public will have had enough.
    Republicans there is nothing to be proud of here your president has broken the nation in two.

    To the post above if you are getting entertainment out of the situation in America you make me sick, but I am proud to know that the " whining " that we are doing is to protect the voting rights and privileges that we are all guaranteed under the Constitution of the United States of America.

  • 7 November 2004, 04:12

    I say kill the bastards.

  • 7 November 2004, 15:35

    You demean only yourself. I spent the first 10 years of my voting life voting 100% Republican. My registration should still be on file in Albany. I switched parties largely because of people just like you. Then I discovered that the Left was right — which was an awful shock to me at the time, and have been voting Democratic for the last 10 years — and the rest of my life I suspect.

    Thank you for reminding me what utterly worthless garbage those on the side to which I used to belong are.

    Regards,

    Reynolds Jones
    Schenectady, NY

  • 7 November 2004, 17:26

    God, how old are you? Eight? Grow up!

  • 7 November 2004, 19:04

    I think you have it wrong....it’s not ha ha....it’s only a matter of time before you here, "AHA." As in Eureka! Votergate! This reminds me of the election in ’72 after the Watergate break-in.....that was investigated by a couple of determined newspaper reporters. I believe the U.S. still has some committed souls who are willing to do the leg work to get to the bottom of this. It will just take one whistleblower to get it started....and Bev Harris with www.blackboxvoting.org could just be the beginning of a nice investigation into the corruption of our election process.

    Remember, ’The Jersey Girls’ didn’t quit in their demands for an investigation into 9/11 and the American people are not going to rest when our Democracy is at stake.

    It just a small dedicated group of people to change the world. ’AHA!’

  • 12 November 2004, 05:27

    Give it up. You lost. Stop your whining.

• 6 November 2004, 18:30

  THE WAR HAS BEGUN. I’M LOCKED AND LOADED.

• 6 November 2004, 20:58

  I’m a statistician. Would anyone like some help with some formal analyses?

  Dr. Matt

  • 11 November 2004, 02:05

    The graphs contrast exit poll results to actual votes and suggest that only fraud could explain the discrepancies, but the evidence presented is highly selective.

    Statisticians please comment (and state your professional qualifications): what kind of statistical comparison would be meaningful? If all the exit polls in the country were compared to actual results, couldn’t we determine the probability that a particular result in a particular precinct could have occured by normal variability, as opposed to error or fraud?

    Pollsters please comment (and state your professional qualifications): some imply that the exit polls should be discounted because they are partisan or unscientific. Who carried out the exit polls - what polling companies in what states? It is my impression that polls are conducted by the major polling companies in a disciplined scientific manner and used to set the margin or errors, and that actual results outside the margin of error are suspect. True?

    I believe the argument can only be won through statistical analysis.

  • 12 November 2004, 13:49

    I’m finishing up my PhD in Biostatistics. If we we can get some valid election result numbers, I would truly enjoy working on this project!

    Susan

• 6 November 2004, 21:00

  What fun to watch you democrazies go at each others’ throats, blamin’ the other
  guy for your failures or wins whether your Glorious Savior won or lost.

  Like monkeys fuckin’ footballs.

  And hardly anyone sees that The System has fucked ’em.
  And as Robert Pirsig said, "So much talk about the system
  and so little understanding."

  The players don’ mean jack shit. The Fall of Empire is at hand like
  all The Great and Glorious before them.

  • 8 November 2004, 10:35

    Enough already! Am I the only person to take a 30+ year history of voting Republican and move my party affiliation to the Democratic camp? You may think so, but you would be incorrect.

    There are a number of honorable men and women in the GOP that have either changed Party affiliation or stood up to say. "Enough Already!"

    So before you continue bashing the DEMS for wanting an accounting, consider this. We as a country NEED to repair the system and restore credibility in not only the eyes of the world, but in the hearts of the individual voter in this country.

    Have we as a nation become so lazy as to no longer be willing to take pencil to paper and make our voices heard?

    Will we once again put off addressing the need to standardize voting procedures until some months before the election next time when it’s too late.

    Will we adopt legislation to standardize the handling of absentee or provisional ballots so individual precincts don’t decide how to handle them?

    Will we find it too inconvenient to push for legislation to deal with the disenfranchisement of voters? I certainly hope not.

    I applaud the efforts of those individuals challenging the system here. Everyone will benefit.

    Think of the future if you will. If we can restore a system of elections in this country that assure the voters their vote will count, and that the results of that election are incontrovertible, both sides will win.

    It should be the desire of all parties to seek an election where no matter who won, their Administration could begin without the clouds of doubt and deception that harm us today.

    If my candidate wins, I’ll know he won honorably. Then we all win.

    Thanks for your time.

    J.C. Rich

• 6 November 2004, 22:21

  I’ve suspected all along that Bush was going to fix this election as I believe he did the last one. There is just too much money at stake for him and his gang. I’m betting we’re talking billions. That plus the new theocracy that has arisen in the central and south made his reelection a sure thing. Thousands of churches campaigned for Bush from the pulpit...totally illegal. They should loose their tax exempt status...but Bush owns the law as well as the law makers, that will never happen. He knew it going in just the same as he did last time around, that he was going to win. He was shocked last time when the networks called Florida for Gore because I suspect he knew the fix was in. It was pretty clear from the decrepencies between the exit polls and the actual counts back then that votes were being tampered with. It’s going to be a rough four years. If he implements half the plans he’s been talking about it will set America back decades , destroy way too much environment to ever recover, and put us in a stratospheric tax situation for decades to come just to pay for money hemoraging from every quarter of the Bush administration.

• 6 November 2004, 22:34

  Your charts are misleading because they are not extending the bars to zero. The only intent in presenting information in that way is to exaggerate differences in the heights of the bars. For great insights on how to fairly present data without losing (or manufacturing) meaning: read Edward Tufte’s books such as "Envisioning Information"

• 7 November 2004, 01:42

  I spent Tuesday night counting ballots in the small mostly Republican town of New Boston, NH. I too am convinced that this election was stolen, but I am confused by your graph stating that NH had electronic ballots. Is the exit poll data only from the precincts that had electronic balloting in this state? I didn’t think there were many, if any, electronic polling locations in the state.

  Thanks,
  Aaron.

• 7 November 2004, 01:56

  Now I see why Bush was SO certain he was going to win... I hope somebody besides Ralph Nader pushes for an investigation. There’s definitely something wrong with the election result!

  If an obvious fraud like this goes unchallenged, the same thing will happen in 2008.

  Indeed, it’s quite suspicious how the republicans are trying to smokescreen the problem by badmouthing the exit polls — which have been around for ages —, instead of supporting a long overdue assessment of these electronic voting machines.

  • 8 November 2004, 20:45

    I wouldn’t hold your breath. It seems to me that neither party is clean enough to bring out any serious charges against the other. As a consequence of this, everything continues to get worse. We need to change the election equipment (back to paper and pencil, or forward to a Mercuri approved electronic system), and the election methodology (approval, or better yet condorcet), so that we can start breaking the duopoly.

• 7 November 2004, 02:31

  The only way bush could have won is to rig the election, I know there are a lot of stupid redneck honkys in the US, but two questionable elections in a row... come on!

  - Blackman

  • 3 February 2005, 20:08

    Very educated posting. Way to flatter us with your intelligent choice of words.

• 7 November 2004, 02:45

  I know in my heart that there can’t be this many Americans who would be dooped by karl Rove and co. I have absolutely no trust in the "democratic" process in its present state. I am also certain that the despair Kerry supporters feel about a Republican "win" is far greater than the despair Bush supporters would have felt with a Kerry win if it were possible. The country is now irrevocably divided. I am in favor of a class action lawsuit by Democrats against the Republican party for alleged votor fraud. I want all these irregularities to be investigated and if found to be true, we must call for the impeachment of W. I do not want to allow this moron and his cronies to control our lives for another four years unless they have actually won this election fairly and honestly. I’m certain this wasn’t the case.

• 7 November 2004, 03:18

  I was a field organizer in a rural county in Ohio for this election. The mood in the county was great for Kerry. I thought he’d win by at least 5 points. He ended up losing. I think there was some serious fraud perpetrated on the residents of the county, the state of Ohio, the nation and yes, even the world. My problem is I need an actuary or someone who can crunch numbers better than I can. They must be willing to travel to Ohio. Any takers? Call me at 614-886-4715. Do not leave a message as I have no way of retreiving it. I don’t want greetings or words of encouragement. My volunteers and I know we are wished well by all. We are doing this because we are patriots and we love our country and are afraid of what four more years of the current administration will bring.

• 7 November 2004, 04:19

  The CEO of Diebold promised Bush he’d deliver him the election.

  Meanwhile, Bush shot off his stupid mouth all day on election day with "I’m Gonna Win" "I’m Gonna Win" . How did he already know something the rest of us didn’t?

• 7 November 2004, 05:10

  Of the non-critical states, only Illinois was shown with bar charts. As many of these shouyld be shown before we can make the case that the ’coincidences’ were found only in critical states. Maybe there’s a bias here?

• 7 November 2004, 08:35

  If you’re so inclined to believe the exit poles, then how do you dispose of the inconvenient fact that ’moral values’ (not the economy or the war) was the dominant theme that voters cited to explain their selections in the voting booths? While President Clinton was embarrassing his party during the Monica scandal, I wrote to my (Democrat) congressman to express my disgust that his majestic office should be brought so low. He wrote back that President Clinton would recieve nothing less than his full support during this ’persecution.’ Indeed, the whole Democratic Party was unified in this attitude and they went to the mat for him. The recent election confirmes that there is a price to be paid by a political party for moral turpitude during times of crisis (war) in this country.

  If you Democrats allow your party radicals in Iowa to select Ms. Clinton as your candidate in 2008, you can count on being out of the White House for another eight years. You likely could have won this past election with a Joe Liberman or Joe Biden. Thank You Iowa!!

  • 8 November 2004, 20:24

    Oh, yes... George Bush is truly a pillar of ’moral values’. Lying, cheating, stealing---these are all honorable traits. And I really admire his stance on abortion---that all fetuses have a right to life. Too bad he doesn’t place the same value on the lives of thousands of Iraqi women and children.

  • 9 November 2004, 03:37

    "...how do you dispose of the inconvenient fact that ’moral values’ (not the economy or the war) was the dominant theme that voters cited to explain their selections in the voting booths?"

    Perhaps some voters considered fabricating intelligence to justify an illegal war in Iraq as immoral? I don’t know, but it seems kind of immoral to me.

  • 21 November 2004, 03:09

    Was Clinton’s dallying anywhere near as immoral as waging war with Iraq? I think not. I’d vote for a Clinton anytime knowing that they care more about the American people.

• 7 November 2004, 16:52

  A friend was a fairness judge in north Denver, a primarily Hispanic area. When a touch screen machine was reported giving problems, a repairman came in and unplugged it, losing all the votes.

  Another friend reported using a touch screen machine in early voting in New Mexico. He had to try 5 times before it would light up the correct Democratic votes. All other attempts lit up republican choices and had to be deleted. How many people didn’t realize this was happening?!

  A postal worker friend reported mysterious losses of Democratic ballots for early voting and had a similar report from co-workers in Ohio.

• 7 November 2004, 17:57

  Another good site to explore this issue is www.bradblog.com Lot’s of links and graphics and looks like he will follow the issue updating daily for some time to come. It is also thankfully free of commentary dispensed from those who only seek to distract concerned citizens.

  ---

  Is is unreasonable to demand that our votes be tallied accurately and transparently?

  According to the official election results posted on the Palm Beach County election website, 542,835 ballots were cast for a presidential candidate while only 454,427 voters turned out for the election. Discrepancy of 88,408 votes.

  Other election oddities occurred throughout Florida with some counties registering a 400% increase in expected voter turnout among Republicans while Democrats supposedly experienced a -60% decline in expected support in certain counties. The 50+ counties experiencing the high percentage fluctuations were using optical scan voting machines.

  More...

  http://www.washingtondispatch.com/spectrum/archives/000

  =================================================

  Citing concerns about potential terrorism, Warren County, Ohio officials locked down the county administration building on election night and blocked anyone from observing the vote count as the nation awaited Ohio’s returns.

  County officials say they took the action Tuesday night for homeland security, although state elections officials said they didn’t know of any other Ohio county that closed off its elections board. Media organizations protested, saying it violated the law and the public’s rights. The Warren results, delayed for hours because of long lines that extended voting past the scheduled close of polls, were part of the last tallies that helped clinch President Bush’s re-election.

  Commissioners made the security decisions in a closed-door meeting last week, but didn’t publicize the restrictions that were made until after polls closed.

  More...

  http://www.enquirer.com/editions/2004/11/05/loc_warrenvote05.html

  ==================================================

  The last paragraphs of a November 5 House Judiciary Committee letter to General Accounting Ofice:

  "We are literally receiving additional reports every minute and will transmit additional information as it comes available. The essence of democracy is the confidence of the electorate in the accuracy of voting methods and the fairness of voting procedures. In 2000, that confidence suffered terribly, and we fear that such a blow to our democracy may have occurred in 2004.

  Thank you for your prompt attention to this inquiry.

  Sincerely,

  John Conyers, Jr. / Jerrold Nadler / Robert Wexler
  Ranking Member / Ranking Member / Member of Congress
  House Judiciary Committee Subcommittee on the Constitution

  ---

  More...
  http://www.democraticunderground.com/

  DON’T WAIT FOR OTHER PEOPLE TO TAKE CARE THIS GETS INVESTIGATED — GET INVOLVED. AT LEAST SPREAD THE WORD AND ENCOURAGE THE PEOPLE YOU KNOW TO DO LIKEWISE.

• 7 November 2004, 18:15

  Hi there,
  French Man here. First, i was in honeymoon few years ago in florida. Everyone was so nice, we smelled that special parfume of America : People smiling, and everything possible..(good things..)
  Today we’re so sad....
  I can’t believe that Religion is driving this country !!!!!
  From here USA is just like countrys that the US gov. is fighting !!!!
  That’s why i can’t believe it’s true. The election is SURELY wrong !!!
  Aks the americans who are living in Europe, seems that we dont read the same news.
  From here, we think the future will be a suite of negative laws, less liberty for US People, and all in the name of God !!! Just because of terrorism. Listen, terrorism will always exist, just changing of form; understand that and remember the Anthrax was US Anthrax...

  Noboby’s clean,
  But if our Président is a "money taker", he makes us laugh and don’t want any war. We’re fighting for something big, something US people is loosing : Our rigth to say wath we want when we want, and the right to ask and obtain answers about "hot problems" in our country.

  Today, Mr Bush is not answering any questions, he’s just frithening you.
  The world didn’t change in September 11, it’s just the same world, full of chidren, happynes and joy,more,much more than violence and terrorism.

  The thing that change the 9/11 is what your medias shows.....

  But with 4 more years, the world will change......surely... :((((

  (NB :Sorry for my bad english)

• 7 November 2004, 19:06

  What action can we take to rectify this situation---I’m asking, how to we get Bush out and Kerry in?
  Grace Anderson
  Saguache County
  Crestone, Colorado---USA

• 7 November 2004, 19:12

  I would like to add a comment. I am collecting signatures at my blog, to try to get Democrats to pick up the ball on this incredibly frightening issue.

  Here’s some of it:

  "To John Kerry, John Edwards, their families, and to all the organizations and individuals that lead Democrats, Republicans, and individuals in a fight against George Bush until Wednesday afternoon, November 3, 2004:

  Please do not give up on the American people. We have heard you say you have our backs, but the time is now to ask serious questions about what happened in Ohio and Florida this week. It has been argued and accepted by some that exit polls did not match results, and that those exit polls were mistakes. However, today Ohio’s Franklin county announced publicly that it accidentally added 3,893 in favor of George W. Bush. In Florida, counties using the Op-Scan electronic voting machines overwhelmingly and surprisingly voted for George W. Bush. If this is voter fraud, it will be the largest case of it in history. Now is the time to take action—or we could lose the Democratic Republic of America."

  I would also like to add to this a basic edit I did on my page, to avoid confusion.

  1. We lost the election. Fine. OK. I do say that already. I am not asking about whether these votes will change the outcome of the election. I am asking how we as a country can currently be in the process of "exporting democracy" when we do not hold our own elections accountable?
  2. The war in Iraq is incredibly important, but I believe that it is detracting from what would otherwise be newsworthy information. I don’t think that was an overlooked thought by the Bush administration. I give credit where credit is due, I think these people are very clever. I also think that screaming our heads off about Iraq isn’t going to do anything, either. Maybe it would have before the election, but we lost.
  3. What we need to make sure of is that every vote is accurately counted every time. Hey, if Bank of America can do it with their checks, why can’t we do it with our votes?
  4. I think this deserves energy and attention, and I think it deserves it now.

  You can read the rest & sign it here. If you feel the same way that I do, please comment with your name and location. If you feel as strongly as I do, you will either post it on your Livejournal or blog, or link to it. Please let the word get out that these election results are worthy of investigation.

• 7 November 2004, 20:09

  I’ve taken to doing SOMETHING: EMAILING MY SENATORS (and some others). It may not make a difference, but made me feel better.

  agross6325@aol.com

  Clackamas, OR

• 8 November 2004, 08:58

  write us if you witnessed any voting irregularities in Ohio. I am beginning a project here in Ohio. If you want to join our group it is at yahoogroups.
  OHIOVOTE2004@yahoogroups.com or write me JULIET067@aol.com for more information
  JULIET STEWART

• 8 November 2004, 18:49

  How do we know that the computer voting was not rigged. For example: lets say that for every 10 votes posted the machine will automaticaly take 8 of those, regardless of who you voted for, and apply those votes to who they wanted to win. After all these votes had no paper trail. Food for thought!

• 8 November 2004, 19:26

  I think we’re wasting precious time and energy thinking about this past election. Where does it all stop? What if we find we have to audit the auditors? What I think is really going on here is that we’re in denial about what really happened on November 2nd.

  Here’s what really happened --- We got EXACTLY the president we vote for every day!

  There’s an old saying that says watch your pennies and your dollars will take care of themselves. We need to think about what we’re doing with our pennies (our every day votes) and the dollars (elections that happen every four years) will take care of themselves. The problem with the United States of America is we don’t want to admit that what we really want is a president that doesn’t give a crap about the environment, or health care, or the lives of our young men and women! That is how we, the American people, are voting with our pennies every day of our lives.

  For example...

  Every time we start our car, we are supporting our dependence on foreign oil.
  Every time we eat food that is NOT organic, we are supporting our dependence on foreign oil.
  Every time we purchase something in plastic, we are supporting our dependence on foreign oil.
  Every time we take our clothes to the dry cleaners, we are supporting our dependence on foreign oil.
  Every time we purchase NON organic cotton/hemp/wool/ramie/silk/etc. clothing, we are supporting our dependence on foreign oil.
  Every time we use a personal (hair, skin, teeth, and nails) care product that has petroleum based surfactants in it, we are supporting our dependence on foreign oil.
  Every time we light a paraffin based candle, we are supporting our dependence on foreign oil.
  Every time we use traditional cleaning and laundry products, we are supporting our dependence on foreign oil.
  Every time we visit a fast food restaurant, we are supporting our dependence on foreign oil.
  Every time we dowse ourselves with perfume or apply a little cosmetic cover up, we are supporting our dependence on foreign oil.

  Do we stop to think about where our 401ks and our investment portfolios are leading us? Do we think about the building materials that make up our homes, furnishings, and floor coverings. Do we support our small local organic farmers that don’t use petro-chemicals? Are we walking/biking more and driving less? How is it we can decide to put a man on the moon and in less than 10 years it’s done and have an energy crisis in the mid-seventies and here we are 30 years later still dependent on foreign oil?

  What choices did we make with our pennies today? Did we choose products that will guarantee our dependence on foreign oil and thus justify the deaths of thousands of individuals in Iraq to feed our quest to secure our way of life as we know it? Or did we choose to cut back just a little on our mass consumerism? I’m sure many of us are loathe to admit there is a connection between that plastic bottle we just purchased containing our favorite beverage and the destruction going on in Iraq.

  Did we choose to eat a healthful meal of organic fruits, vegetables, dairy, meat, and grain products, or did we throw a plastic packaged meal in the microwave? Did we take a walk today, or drive around in our SUV? Did we veg out in front of the television and support giant corporate conglomerates, or did we take a minute to write a letter to the major food chains asking them to stop coating our food with petroleum based wax laced with chemical preservatives? Did we buy yet another plastic toy for our children or did we teach them a new way to think or to explore the natural world around them? Did we drive their obese little bottoms to school today in our mini-vans, or did they get a nice dose of fresh air and sunshine in a walk to school? Did we stop for fast food and eat our meal out of a styrofoam container and a petroleum-based wax covered cup, or did we share a meal with our family in our own home without a single disposable item on the table? Did we go to the movies and feed ourselves junk food out of disposable plastic containers, or did we volunteer at a homeless shelter/senior center/day care facility/ or hospital? How about our Christmas list - did we consider the impact on our use of foreign oil here?

  After 9-11, Bush asked Americans to keep on doing what we’re doing, to keep on spending like we’re spending. He asked us to be certain not to let the incident interfere with the mass consumerism that makes up our way of life and the Christmas holidays. He wanted to make sure that we kept up our current lifestyle which is exactly the lifestyle that keeps presidents like him in office. Believe me, if we stop supporting our current mad consumerism and quest for ever more convenience, THEN we will see the change to which we keep giving lip service!

  It’s a beautiful thing - capitalism. We get to vote every single day of our lives!

  How did you vote, today? Tomorrow will build on it.

  I hope we all make better choices today that will be reflected in some real change in 2008.

  • 8 November 2004, 21:24

    Here’s a different perspective:

    http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/110804_stolen_election.shtml

• 8 November 2004, 20:48

  What can we do to assist this effort???

• 8 November 2004, 23:36

  check every state- vote for impeachment

• 8 November 2004, 23:57

  As a combat wounded veteran of The Korean War, I am disgusted with what is happening to the USA.

• 9 November 2004, 01:03

  It is so hard to believe that there are so many guullible people out there. I hope that no one is taking this op-ed article seriously. Opinions are not solid news and are based only on what the writer or opinion giver wants you to believe. If I say "Kerry must be part of a grand scheme to dumb down America by planting ingestible microchips in your COCOA PUFFS, and that my interpertation of polls is the definitive word on what is happening in the election because I found another goofball who agrees with me.", it stiil doesn’t mean I’m right.
  I understand that trendy websites with a "stick it to the man" attitude are cool. I understand that these websites and spaekers desperately want you to see their point of view. I hope that most of you are smart enough to determine what is the truth and what is pure speculation and fantasy.
  I am and always will be an X-Files fanatic, but no matter how hard I want to beleive- Its still just a story exactly like the one that this author penned.

  • 9 November 2004, 03:50

    Most of the posts here miss the point. Sneaky fraud was not necessary in Ohio. They accomplished their feat out in the open, like they always do, and just depend upon the fact that they have reduced the mainstream media to a toothless old hag to ride out the criticism. Let’s say I make it difficult for a group of people to vote; say 2,000,000 of them. I’ll do it by making them wait for hours and hours in poor weather outside because I won’t provide enough voting machines. Now the overwhelming majority will stick with it, because in those precincts, people are mad. They’ve been lied to and cheated (the moral issue that drives peoples choices) and are going to exercise their constitutional right to vote. But let’s say 10% of them have other obligations that preclude them spending 7 hours in line to vote. Kids at home, jobs that can’t wait, etc. Whoa! I just made 200,000 votes disappear. Let’s say I discourage 20% of them. Bonus! See how easy it is?

  • 12 November 2004, 07:31

    http://media.ebaumsworld.com/index.php?e=bushuncensored.wmv

    Its hard to believe there are so many gullible people that would elect this guy president.

• 9 November 2004, 03:46

  I am 100% certain this election was skewed, once again, by the screaming, hateful minority of Americans who believe what makes a country great is its willingness to "kick butt!" I do not understand why Kerry and the Democrats appear to be simply letting another election be stolen from us - I want to believe there is intense investigating going on behind the scenes, but if so, I haven’t heard a single clue about it.

  I cannot face four more years of catastrophic swaggering and language mangling, nor the knowledge that the rest of the world despises everything American because of our Commander in Thief. SURELY something has to give.

• 9 November 2004, 03:56

  This is an impressive report; however, who is your source supporting the graphs? What organization did the exit polling in the states that are illustrated?

• 9 November 2004, 20:21

  I am not sure what it takes to make a case for election fraud - however, I always say "Keep it simple!"
  The official value for election turnout is 52%. However, in my voting district, as in all, the sign in book that we sign prior to casting a vote WAS FULL!!!!!. What am I trying to say?
  Take a random sample of the sign in books from different voting districts - any voting districts. THEY WILL BE FULL!!!!. The actual turnout was virtually 100%. You can see that this is not difficult to prove. The official value is 52%. You have a case of fraud right there.
  The ratio of REGISTERED DEMOCRATS TO REPUBLICANS IS 10:1 NATIONWIDE. If turnout was virtually 100% you do the math!
  I am not an attorney but what does it take to make a case for election fraud? Let’s do it ASAP!!!
  Thanks.
  twilightcity@aol.com

  • 10 November 2004, 18:02

    Well, the first thing it takes is someone in good standing to make the charge and call for an investiation. That person would be John F. Kerry. Since Kerry is satisfied with the results then all other complaints (represented in part by the tinfoil hat club here) don’t amount to a hill of beans.

    I suggest you get over it and move on.

  • 10 November 2004, 21:43

    The ratio of registered DEMONCRATs to Republicans is 10:1 Nationwide?? Maybe in Manhattan. Lots of Jonestown Kerry kool-aid drinkers here!

  • 10 November 2004, 23:41

    You people cannot be serious. I believe some of you should check your blood pressure. I had heard about all of these conspiracy theories on the radio but didn’t believe it until now. The election is over. Go back to your jobs and families. Hillary will be running in 2008. That’s your next opportunity to vote. This one is over.

  • 11 November 2004, 00:48

    If Kerry really wanted to fight for us, this was the moment to prove it- all sorts of irregularities combined with Republican goons intimidating voters in poor neighborhoods left the door wide open for a challenge. He could have proven himself worthy of being President by fighting for the millions Bush has screwed over. Instead, he proved something else- that the ’conspiracy theorists’ were right all along- he was just part of the Skull and Bones NWO script.

    

    Why was he scripted to lose? Because they need the right wing wackos behind Bush and the next war. If it were Kerry in the Whitehouse, he wouldn’t have the support of the ’Christian’ right wing and the Global Holy War the neocons are trying to start would lose it most fervent backers. They want to continue installing the police state with more government spying, checkpoints, random searches, national id cards- total big brother. But with the right wing hatred of Kerry, they couldn’t continue taking us down that path- that’s why it was predetermined for Bush to win.

• 11 November 2004, 01:15

  These bar graphs are astounding. What is the source for them? Also, the exit poll you show for PA which was too close to call doesn’t look right. The exit poll shows Kerry way ahead. How do you explain an exit poll like that?

  • 12 November 2004, 17:15

    In a non-partisan way, can anyone explain why these numbers do not add up in Ohio?

    Total Votes Cast 5,574,476
    Provisional Ballots Issued 155,428

    Breakdown of Candidates
    Badnarik 14,331
    Bush 2,796,174
    Cobb 24
    Duncan 5
    Harris 0
    Kerry 2,659664
    Parker 0
    Peroutka 11,614
    Schriner 14
    Zych 5
    Total 5481804

    I don’t know if provisional ballots have been included in total votes cast, but this suggests at least 92,672 people either wrote in an uncounted name or didn’t vote for a presidential candidate? Is this possible?

    Just wondering...

• 12 November 2004, 05:22

  Interesting post, but your facts are wrong. Nice try though.

  • 15 November 2004, 20:54

    It is easy to say you facts are wrong. Which claimed facts? What are your sources?

• 17 November 2004, 20:12

  Sorry you are so bitter, words from Willy Wonka, You loose! It’s OVER!, Get Over it! Truth be said (the key word is TRUTH) that you are un-willing to share, the votes not counted, no doubt would have had a split (Thats a "share for BOTH candidates" to someone blind to the truth) These votes would very well be divided along the same lines that the rest of the popular vote went. Even if provisional votes were proven to be ALL for kery (most improbable situation) kery still would have lost. The provisionals and waste ballots were NOT confined to dumbocratic precincts or voters but were once again gleaned from both (that "split" word again) between both REPUBLICAN and dumbocratic presincts. kery had his band of beagles out there and still understood he is the LOOSER. Where are the inquires? legal challenges? We are happy that lurch took it like a man and left the building. "Ulawst". It is a shame you can not see how very far away from the real puse of our great nation you are. Hispanics, Jewish, Gays and so many other groups have voted in GREAT NUMBERS for the right.

  • 21 November 2004, 02:52

    Lose, L-o-s-e, means not to win. Loose, l-o-o-s-e means not stable, wiggly, like your imagination. John Kerry is K-e-r-r-y. And, gays did not vote for the Evangilical right, who claim to be Christians. There is nothing Christian about the Evangelical right.

  • 8 December 2004, 22:43

    It is apparent what has happened....again. The Republican Neo-Cons have stolen the helm of this country and the media seems content to allow Bush to exert his pilfered authority. People are dying and bad spellers are blogging their little cheers for the fascist state on the internet, reminding us all how ignorant many of the Bush supporters actually are while we’re left to deal with how evil the rest of them can be. It is a truely terrifying experience living among such evil, ignorant humans.

  • 8 December 2004, 23:31

    Look at your spelling, then call everyone else stupid......very telling

  • 15 September 2005, 19:32

    I am not from the US, but what the fuck is wrong with your country???!!!

    you people RE-ELECTED this psycopath? Sure, once was an honest mistake, but twice?? I thought it obvious that Bush was not fit for office. It should have been a landslide.

    The only hope the US has, is for the people to show the world you don’t support Bush and his crazy ideas. I hear that congress can impeach his arse after the 2006 elections. Go for it.

    Yours,

    Concerned Fellow Earthling.

• 19 November 2004, 02:50

  there are just some ppl who are for bush bashing and this article is one of them.

• 9 December 2004, 04:53

  Tell two people who each tell two people Etc. We need to fight this thing to the end.