US ’uses incendiary arms’ in Iraq

Forum posts

• 10 November 2005, 01:25

  Hmmm, it seems strange that the U.S. would use the excuse that these devices were used to illuminate and area to identify enemy positions; since most everyone going on a night raid, from pilots to soilders on foot are given night-vision goggles.

  Also, why is it that no one else has brought this little facet up to question the U.S. response?

  • 11 November 2005, 17:56

    If your question had been raised at a WH briefing here are some typical official responses:

    "We had insufficient quantities for the Iraq forces that accompanied our troops",
    "I dont have all the details, but I will get back to you on that"...next
    "Maybe you should direct that question to the Pentagon"
    "Yes, the president cares and is aware of......"

    As you may know, questions of this nature, pursued vigorous by an individual reporter will result in getting little if any notice at all in future briefings.
    In the journalist lingo he/she will be labelled ’radioactive’, seated at the back of the galley or out the door.
    (Think job scarcity, company health plan, mortgages, kids college fees, status, ego...)
    There are few MSM journalists who can afford to take such risks.

    What you call an "excuse" officials will have already prepared a multiple number of "plausible denial" scenarios, staying within,"the message box", thus maintaining consistent spin.

    That’s why most internet sites have to rely on volunteer contributions to subsidize reporters who are prepared to counter the Orwellian rubbish which pollutes the MSM.

    A final note: Advertisers will not be tolerate "uncomfortable or unpatriotic truths"
    They that pays the piper still call the tune.

    cheers, jt

• 10 November 2005, 08:28

  As an American, I am utterly ashamed of what our country’s military has done to the people and nation of Iraq. It was NEVER a war. It was always and remains today an ILLEGAL INVASION OF A SOVREIGN NATION - A WAR OF AGRESSION - based on LIES. Illegal in the eyes of the international community. Illegal according to the Geneve Convention and NEVER authorized by UN 1441. Rumsfeld should be shot.

  http://dahrjamailiraq.com/

  Dahr Jamal should get the Pulitzer for his work at exposing this insideous invasion. It was never a war.

  • 11 November 2005, 03:19

    Yes, well, "might makes right" as the saying goes. No member of the U.S. Administration will come close to such an outcome.

    There are some things that I would like to see covered in the news and or some other place where many more Americans can become aware of Iraq’s status as the "cradle of civilization"... There are Americans who are only concerned about Ameican soldiers’ lives and could care less about Iraqq lives — but, it should be made known how much priceless knowledge has been lost due the America’s aggression. The number of unique documents and artifacts dating from 4000 B.C. identifying math, astronomy, medicine. The many Islamic jurispurdence commentary from 900 A.D. and onward.

    For example, ambulatory care was first done in that area back in the B.C. time period. There was an assay for high blood sugar and an oral prepration for it. The 24 hour day, the 60 minute hour, the 365 day calendar. Civil laws were first codified in B.C. times by the peoples of this land. The concept of currency originated there. And many other things...

    Europeans like to think that Copernicus was the first to cite that the Earth revolved around the Sun, but the inhabitans of Mesopetamia had already discovered this in 2000 B.C.

    Another interesting item was that there was a language, Akkidian, that became extinct around 100 B.C. that was many times more complex than present day english. The University of Chicago has been trying to catalogue this language for the past 70 years!!!

    Not to mention that the many Islamic calaphats and Sufi were based in Bagdad and when the Americans bombed the Iraqi National Library, many, many, priceless and unique written documents on various Islamic discourse were destroyed.

    So, the Americans, of those who are only concerned about the deaths of living Iraqis, are unaware of the vast damage that American caused war has done to a grand and long lived civilization.

  • 11 November 2005, 18:24

    The Americans didn’t bomb the library, it was looted by Iraqi criminals. The population in Fallujah had weeks to get out before the assault. The only people who stayed were jihadists, bathists and criminals. They were killed like the dogs they are. The "city of mosques" had become the "city of torture" and the "city of terrorism." Now the terrorists and criminals no longer rule the town, the IP do.

  • 11 November 2005, 22:34

    Here’s 67.190, aka Mr. Know-It-All, telling us how it is.

    How do you know what the fuck is going on there? Did Fox News tell you it’s safe? Why don’t you go there yourself and find out first hand; U.S./I.P. Forces will protect you on your walking tour, I’m sure.

    (Pause)

    BWAhahahahaha!!!!

    Try it, buddy. You would last very long. But, by all means, prove me wrong, PLEASE!!

  • 12 November 2005, 07:13

    American soldiers only protected a select number of buildings of course the Oil Ministry Bldg was top of the list..why should this be surprising. So few troops were available or given orders to maintain security that Rumsfeld’s remark is a classic...when the looting was happening he simply and nonchalontly said ’that’s what people do in a democracy and a bunch of other nonsense. Prior to the invasion archaeologists had been able to get Pentagon Officials to place priceless historical sites on a top priority list. This request came from archaeologist from all over the world.
    Only the blind didn’t know that war was inevitable as it took over six months to get the gear in place while Powell did his charade at the UN. Rummy ignored those military advisers who advised that a minimum of 250,000 troops would be required to maintain order. No flowers greeted the invaders and the real war really began after that Mission Accomplished stunt along with that "bring em on" comment was made by that fellow who likes to refer to himself as a war leader. His greatest accomplishment was in avoiding 90% of basic training in the National Guard an escape route for draft dodging rich boys. How Cheney that chicken hawk avoided serving his country is something else again. There is an Arab saying that goes like this: my brother and I might kill a cousin but my cousin and I will always kill a stranger. This bullshit that Syrians and foreigners are causing all the major problems is disputed by commanders in the filed who say less than 10% make up the insurgency. When a relative is killed tribal custom demands an eye for an eye. Even Saddam’s murderous sons who were so despised were considered to have demonstrated couage and the coffee house chatter for months discussed if the bullet hole in the head of one of the sons was self inflicted rather than be taken prisoner. For those interested in statistics the military capacity of the US compared to Iraq was rated at 250-1. And this is considered a war. And that bird brain Gerry Bremmer disbanded the army and now they want all former officers up to the rank of major back. The political hacks are definitely not fast learners. And now Chalabi, a liar, crook, traitor giving secrets to Iran is back in Washington, what’s wrong with this picture..looks like were really getting back to the bottom feeders again. Iraq is so insecure that the short 20 mile drive to the airport is done at high speed and great risk. What does it tell you when Bush (giving that plastic turkey photo op) or more recently Rice sneak into the country under the cover of darkness with shades drawn unannounced for a "surprise visit". I will stop here with some advice for my American and British friends, its time boys to leave your mind and come to your senses, declare victory and depart. After the last chopper left Vietnam Ho didn’t invade California. So remember when that stuff about "fighting them over there rather than in Washington comes up" don’t forget to chuckle.
    cheers jt.

  • 13 November 2005, 17:19

    Actually the Bush/Cheney/Neo-CON Terrorists (you know the ones that murdered their OWN American people in the 9-11 False Flag attack that the entire world now realizes) murder woman and children for OIl, Empire(bases) and Israel.

    Murdering children for oil is wrong, dying for Haliburton and Bectel and all of the other criminal parasites is stupid, and eventually it seems like in Vietnam after killing close to 3 million civilians and losing 50 plus thousand of our own citizens that more Americans would finally wake up to what these wars are really all about.

    I don’t see how calling those who would defend their homeland in Iraq dogs makes sense as Americans would do the same thing if an outside force came in and killed our families and tried to steal our country’s resources. This is a war for Capitalism not "Democracy" by any means if it was "Democratic" we would allow an Iraqi vote tommorrow there by the HUGE MAJORITY that want the U.S. out and be gone immediately.

  • 15 November 2005, 05:38

    a low rent occupation army that shot more innocent civilians than terrorist to prop up puppet rulers and exploit gas and oil resources. THANK YOU AMERICA THANK YOU

• 11 November 2005, 22:51

  George W. Bush Should be Tried and Convicted for WAR CRIMES

  Vernon Gomez
  Austin, Texas

• 15 November 2005, 00:06

  Incendiaries are fine. War is hell. Why are incendiaries worse than getting a bayonet rammed through your ribcage or getting molten metal spurted all over your when an armor-piercing round hits your tank?

  • 15 November 2005, 05:40

    BECAUSE IT’S DONE TO CIVILIANS YOU A-HOLE

  • 16 November 2005, 06:48

    "SWeep it all up" Rumsfeld is reported to have said.

    Grandparents, kids, the sick, crippled, pregnant, wives, husbands, farmers, nurses, students, etc. etc. etc.... anyone it doesn’t matter. kill. torture, abort, burn, dissolve, The Empire will make you submit to "Cronie Capitalism", you will give up your oil and stop thinking about using Euros, allow military bases, hire U.S. companies to rebuild all of the devastion Rumsfeld/Bush/Cheny Neo terrorists have caused and finally bow to the will of Caesar. Bush hath decreed.

    Otherwise you will be shocked and awed into oblivion until you finally accept your ’freedom’.

    This is New American Century freedom. Dick "the torturer" Cheney says so. Convert or lose they head.

  • 16 November 2005, 14:29

    Absurd. If the US wasn’t trying to minimize civilian casualties, we would have simply flattened Fallujah from the air with zero friendly casualties. Instead, we sent in ground-pounders who died in nasty house-to-house fighting. Your failure to acknowledge this dishonors their memory.

    Meanwhile, the enemy delights in hiding behind civilians whenever possible, which has the natural result of putting them in the line of fire.

    Try thinking logically instead of hollering in all-caps.

    MTT

  • 16 November 2005, 14:30

    In your post, you take ridiculous liberties with Rumsfeld’s use of the word "it."

    MTT

  • 16 November 2005, 15:04

    Your cheerleading for murdering women and kids for oil is sickening.

    The journal Lancet reports approximately 100, 000 dead civilians.

    Even if they are only half right that’s 50, 000 civilians dead. All dead based on lies for oil, empire, Israel, and to pad the Crime family’s bank accounts.

    How does one kill tens of thousands of civilians if one is trying to ’minimalize civilian casualties. Just ’bad aim’??? While I have litle doubt many of our soldiers on the ground are trying to limit the loss of civilian life people like Colin Powell make it clear civilian casualties are unimportant other than the bad press they generate.

    I listen to and read reports of our troops there telling over and over how simply regular Iraqi citizens are picked up with ZERO evidence and tortured to see what info they will provide. These people are GUILTY until proven innocent and many die having commited NO crime other than setting on top of oil reserves lusted for by The Empire.

    All of the Bush lies have fallen one by one. Iraqi’s have a right to send the INVADERS packing. American’s would do the same if we were invaded by an outside force wanting to kill our families and steal our resources. Bush’s hiding behind "spreading freedom" and the flag is disgusting!!!

    This war is illegal, immoral, and killing tens of thousands of innocents.

    You be a cheerleader for it if you want. Not me.

  • 16 November 2005, 20:25

    U.S. official admits phosphorus used as weapon in Iraq
    Last Updated Wed, 16 Nov 2005 09:57:51 EST
    CBC News

    A spokesman for the U.S. military has admitted that soldiers used white phosphorus as an "incendiary weapon" while trying to flush out insurgents in the northern Iraqi city of Fallujah last year.

    Smoke from the Fallujah railroad station after U.S. bombing, early Nov. 9, 2004.

    "White phosphorus is a conventional munition," Lt.-Col. Barry Venable told the British Broadcasting Corporation. "It is not a chemical weapon. They are not outlawed or illegal."

    He added that though used mostly to provide smokescreens and flashes of light, in the Fallujah battle, "it was used as an incendiary weapon against enemy combatants."

    High-ranking U.S. officials had earlier insisted that the substance, which can burn skin to the bone, was used only to help illuminate battle scenes.

    "U.S. forces do not use napalm or white phosphorus as weapons," the American ambassador to London, Robert Tuttle, wrote in a letter to the Independent newspaper.

    An unknown number of Iraqi women and children died of phosphorus burns during the hostilities, Italian documentary makers covering the battle for Fallujah have claimed.

    Other reporters on the scene have said U.S. forces used a combination of white phosphorus and explosives known as "shake ’n’ bake."

    Venable’s comments could expose the United States to allegations that it has been using chemical weapons in Iraq.

    The suspicion that former president Saddam Hussein was developing chemical weapons, as well as biological and nuclear ones, was one of the Bush administration’s main justifications for the 2003 invasion of the Persian Gulf country.

  • 17 November 2005, 14:50

    Yeah, I’ll cheerlead for the people I know serving over there. You keep cheerleading for the jihadists who cut off people’s hands and heads in places like Fallujah for selling liquor and pop music, who slaughter random civilians out to celebrate at a wedding reception.

    Notice that you toss around questionable body counts without even bothering to figure out how they were killed, or more importantly, by whom. Keep ignoring the fact that this may well have been the only invasion in history where the attacking force was more concerned about civilian casualties than the "defending" force.

    Two weeks ago jihadists dressed as cops showed up at a school, pulled half a dozen teachers aside, and murdered them in cold blood. Those are the insurgents you support.

    Civilians have been dying in Iraq for 40 years, at least. Now, at least they have a shot at self-government and autonomy. You want to deny them that chance.

    MTT

    PS—Gen. Powell is an honorable man.

  • 17 November 2005, 18:32

    The citizens of Iraq have a right and a duty to defend themselves from an invading army. You might likely do the same if your nation was invaded.

    It is not surprising that some Iraqis want to cut off the heads of the invaders. Is this surprising? If a nation invaded America and dropped bombs on your neighbors and murdered your family would you react differently? Why is beheading soldiers worse than dropping 500 pound bombs on civilians and blowing their heads off. Your logic here seems skewed.

    If you have more reliable civilian death counts than what Lancet has compiled then present them otherwise I use what data is available.

    The bottom line is this. Tis war is illegal, immoral, and based on lies and though some would choose to wrap the flag over their eyes others will never.

    If you really want to support the troops give them what they REALLY want. Plane tickets HOME. The citizens of Iraq make it clear daily. They want no part of U.S. FAKE freedom which is really capitalism posing as ’democracy’. A country that sponsors acts like the anti-freedom patriot act, uses fraudulant elections, tortures those guilty of no crimes, and commits abuses like at Abu Graib will have little credibility in the world promoting ’freedom’.

    The U.S. helped install CIA asset Sadam in the first place and Rumsfeld was cutting oil deals with him and said nothing as he attacked the Kurds. Where was the interest in ’democracy’ when Rumsfeld was supporting oil deals?

    Sadam is gone already, remember? This is a war on THE PEOPLE of Iraq to secure their resources and set up bases there. The U.S. has no plans to EVER leave for a long long time. The Iraqi citizens know this and want NO dictators Sadam or the U.S.

    No amount of cheerleading will change the facts and like Vietnam the MAJORITY of Americans have already been through war based on lies and ore not waiting until the U.S. Fascists have ’liberated’ several MILLION civilians using WMD’s and 50 plus thousand of our own citizens in the name of ’democracy’.

    Bring em HOME NOW and let’s end this illegal and immoral war for cronie capitalism.

  • 18 November 2005, 14:19

    You’re simply wrong on too many points, both factual and moral. You oppose capitalism, which is the natural impulse of people, both free and otherwise, whether it’s black marketeers trying to feed their families behind the iron curtain during the Cold War or Afghans gathering and selling old Soviet tank parts for scrap metal or orange juice futures traders on Wall Street. You casually discount the results of an election in which roughly 1/3 of the Iraqi people voted, risking their very lives to do so. You base your arguments on tales of fraudulent elections that are, at best, implausible. And you equate the cold-blooded sloppy decapitation of disarmed captives with the unintended—but often unavoidable—death of jihadists’ wives and children who would be alive today if their cowardly husbands and fathers didn’t hide behind them, knowing that our forces are reluctant to kill non-combatants—even the family members of jihadists. You stand facts and morality on their heads, and in doing so, you advance global jihad, whether that is your intention or not.

  • 18 November 2005, 17:54

    Do you really believe that the Iraqi government was constituted without US influence? No, sir. The Iraqi government is exactly the government that the United States wanted put in place. It wouldn’t have mattered if 100% or 2% of Iraqis had "risked their lives" to vote. The result would have been the same. It was pre-ordained in Washington D.C. Get real.

  • 18 November 2005, 23:23

    Of course the Iraqi government was constituted with US influence. The election would never have happened had the US not invaded and helped provide security for the election (and cajoled bitter and belligerent tribes and peoples into sitting down at a negotiating table). In the late 40’s, Japanese and German governments were also constituted with US influence, and they seem to have turned out okay. Let’s not pretend that things would be better for Iraqis and Americans if we were to let the jihadists strangle a liberal democracy in its infancy.

    Setting aside the bile and angst that plagues this website, I sincerely hope you have a nice weekend enjoying your—our—many liberties and blessings.

    Regards,

    MTT

  • 19 November 2005, 03:58

    Yep I’m "simply wrong on too many points" to even try listing them, as you say. Yep, you bet.

    A more convincing reply would have dealt with which if any point was disagreed with.

    I certainly DON"T oppose capitalism per se as you falsly claim. indeed you must know better, your straw men simply show less than full honesty.

    The majority of The World OPPOSES this war.
    The majority of America opposes this war.
    The majority of Iraqis opposes this war,

    Who really profits.

    The REAL discussion should be about how can America sustain itself now that the Bush/Cheney machine has backed America into an economic corner IMO with HUGE debt and only indications it is going to get worse faster. War for the next 50 years??? Is that the best we can do ??? There is a HUGE economic problem being talked about behind closed doors, and with Mr. Gates reportedly cashing in his dollars for euros some may begin to rightfully question the stability of things.

    It would be better IMO to have a somewhat informed (and ready) populace if indeed the true motive is to save the citizens economic and physical pain. Wouldn’t it be so much better if Bush could simply come out and try and speak just a BIT of the truth. It often seems they are INTENTIONALLY trying to destroy the economy to set up FASCISM. Why doesn’t he just level with the people about where we need to go for the sake of The people. Is this intentional? He hasn’t been able to be convincing in any objective way IMO.

  • 19 November 2005, 08:39

    Who really profits???

    Halliburton
    Kellogg Brown and Root
    Bechtel
    Carlyle
    The Bu$h crime family

  • 19 November 2005, 17:47

    The question in my mind is not so much would Iraq benefit (IMO) from having a REAL Democracy (if that were even possible) but rather does one country have the right to FORCE it’s style of government and economy upon another country at gunpoint. Especially based on INTENTIONAL LIES. And at the price of tens if not hundreds of thousands of innocent citizens and who know how many American lives.

    I do not consider elective wars for padding the wallets of a Few using the lives of other peoples children to be an acceptable solution. Though war has been used often in the past to revive economies just think what those hundreds of billions of dollars could have been used for in INVESTMENT in Iraq. Wouldn’t that have made the citizens of Iraq alot more likely not to want to kill the INVADERS.

    As long as Iraqis see America as the invaders and ones who want control over their resources and lives they will most likely NEVER stop their attacks. It’s really all about who gets the money. DO we want it to go to the military/corporate/industrialists who use it to kill and destroy their way to profit, or do we want to use it for schools and teachers and doctors, who work eliminating the suffering of the citizens.

    This war was totally an elective one based on no clear threat, to simply revive a sinking U.S. economy and status in the world as THE Superpower. Sadly it seems to be having exactly the opposite effect and the Cronie Capitalists (as opposed to honest capitalists) seem to be the only ones benefitting bilking the system in unsupervised slush fund no bid contract accounts. How "American" is that?

    I would like to see a solution where A CLEAR TIMELINE is worked out in exchange for Peace. IF Iraq realizes The U.S. is getting out I would have to think it would ease the tension and build the necessary trust that it’s gonna take to end the bloodshed. AS long as their are Neo-CON supporting bloodthirsty cheerleaders though that rake in the billions of dollars at the War trough there will always be voices to contibue the bloodshed. Reports have come out of Iraq recently about British agents being caught in an apparent false flag. This type of thing obviously won’t build the trust needed.

    I would like to see the Troops home for Christmas. perhaps the Gov. could refind that missing two TRILLION dollars from the Pentagon and buy each soldier a plane ticket home for some time around the holidays. Now that would build goodwill. Where the hell IS that two trilion anyway???