Kucinich/Abercrombie need help addressing concerns about Iraq Withdrawal

Forum posts

• 12 June 2005, 01:59

  How many interviews have been done with Iraq’s People? What do they want.....there will be many answers there too but it would be benneficial one would think, to take into consideration their ideas. The "insurgents", who will be supplying them with weapons etc? Money, is there a good amount to help Iraq rebuild or to arm themselves? Food, water, shelter, medicine? If there is enough money to support this war, there should be enough to help them to stand strong. A lot of money. And plenty of true Prayer for the Highest Good to lead the way!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and this is Plain Truth. No one likes to talk about this beautiful power of Love given to us freely to exercise. Why is that? it feels like part of the oppression in our country and world. Simple heartfelt prayer in numbers....those who are making the laws and decisions and the People backing them.

  May Peace Prevail on Earth.

  Aiya

• 12 June 2005, 03:53

  1. A feeling that setting a date for withdrawal would encourage insurgents to settle down, wait until the US leaves, and then once again escalate action.

  This is wierd. So called insurgents are living in a country with no public infastructure, jobs centered around security, and a population that has become split because of the invasion and bombing that has destroyed the water, sewer, electrical, food distribution, contruction industry, Oil industry jobs - the primary economic work of Iraq, and too many others to mention.
  You have a mlitary force, a Psy Ops campaign, a lack of proper translators for effective communcation, people running around with weapons to effect their own personal change for revenge, political ideals, religious freedom of expression, the lure of money to carry out attacks, and the potential of huge profits under the guise of war and corruption, is it any wonder that it is not even worse.

  As a patriot of Iraq or an Iraqi ask yourself the following question. As a person living in the above conditions to be blamed for less than normal behavior. What if the above was happening to you where you live? What would you do?

  1. The US if it is to achieve any type of peace and securty needs to STOP BUILD a MILITARY BASES and a PRESENCE of THREAT IN A COUNTRY THEY HAVE BUSINESS IN.
  2. Start to get contractors HIRING IRAQI’s to rebuild public infrstructure, establish daily mediated meetings that are video recorded discusing how to PROVIDE the needs of LIFE in a social CULTURE which are
  a. Peacetime type JOBS in the economy WITHOUT a GUN. NO everybody wants to be a POLICEMAN.
  b. Access and development of farming and self supporting food sources
  c. Development of a redundent supply to water and sewer systems
  d. Development of recyclble shelter and living systems and road and public transport systems
  e. Development of an electrical grid that is solar powered and green to avoid the polllution of the enviornment
  f. Development of cotton and fabric factories and farms to provide cheap local clothing, bedding, and textiles for modern clean living.
  g. Development of Education and Democracy education about self determination using scientific facts, group human goals as in
  items a through f. Which any Iraqi would agree are needed to actually live and sustain a peace time economy.
  h. Development of understanding of creation of independent media and information networks to assure an informed and educated Iraqi people.
  i. The establishment of the Office of Peace and Resource Management which would be the ruled by a coaliition of individuals from each community to assure that problem solving and cultural and socal intergration are the primary goals of the Iraqis

  Sent the above to the US government so they can do the same. I while were at helping other!

  2. A concern that we have lost so many troops already that it would dishonor the memory of those who gave their lives if the US were to withdraw.

  This is Psy Ops from the Military. Any death in any war that is illegal is a DISHONOR to the famliy, the person that died for a lie, and the government representatives that voted on the war, and where to lazy to FIND the TRUTH before sending a PERSON to their DEATH. The famliies that will remain intact wil forever thankyou and you will be seen as CHAMPION of the PEOPLE. In addtion their is no reasonable LOGIC or HUMAN EMPATHY to HAVE even more die, and what will the dead famliies feel about the people who VOTED for a WAR when they lost a loved one. If they believe the GW line of "war on terror" and "the infamous search for WMD" and the "mushroon cloud" I will as you to all SLEEP better at NIGHT an feel like a more decent human being for helping a person that has been sucked into a corporation fiasco and profit venture at the cost of American Blood.

  3. A belief that we are winning the war and now is not the time to talk about leaving.

  Yes they are winning WHAT? What is the vicotry. We already had a misson accomplished speach, and
  Please explain WHAT WAS ACCOMPLISHED, ---- other that if you publicly want to bring up the 4 huge bases,
  the pipe line for oil terminating in WHAT STATE? The open allowance of media to report WHAT TRUTH and ABOUT
  WhAT ISSUES? Show me really Iraqis on TV interviewed by the Thousands so you can PROVE TO ME that the WAR is JUST!!!
  Oh please send a message with the next US CENT COM broadcast TELLING THE IRAQI’s the oil profits, the corporation investments, and the debt to the Iraqis that now EXIST. I think the TRUTH will be BEST. If it is that you actually are part of an democractically elected GOVERNMENT for the COMMON person.

  4. Under the FOIA — please get all documnets leading up to the war from the congress, the executive, the CIA, the FBI. and the military and SEND them to the DEAD soldiers famliies and LET them DECIDE what reason their SONS or DAUGHTERS died for.
  Oh please also include a list of all the primary investors, their positions in government, and their current profits as they relate to the Iraqis and SEND them a COPY of thar info... Please also broadcast that on the CENT COM radio and TV networks to the Iraqis.
  Better than that print a document in arabic and have a press confrence in the sentate to explain it to the American TAX payers.

  7b out. Peace

• 12 June 2005, 10:53

  All four of the problems mentioned above need serious consideration, yes. On problem n. 1 we need to keep in mind that our intelligence is doing covert operations to create confusion, sways in public opinion and/or to encourage civil war giving us all the more reason to continue the occupation. A couple of recent examples are given here: www.rudemacedon.ca/kaminski/0524-slaughter.html If you want to go directly to the examples scroll down to Khadduri’s report. Here’s another article worth reading: www.gulfnews.com/Articles/RegionNF.asp?ArticleID=168406 Problem n. 2 about dishohoring the memory of those who gave their lives...well I have great respect for anyone who finds the courage to admit to their mistakes which lead to grave consequences and are ernest in their desire to repair the damages as well as possible instead of continuing to feed into the lie. It is embarrassing for many of us who swallowed the lies including families of those who lost their lives. We want the truth anyway, even if it angers us! If we are serious and intelligent we will go on from there working together to find a solution. An enormous help to deal with problems n. 2 and 3 would be to put an end to Psycops and shut down the corporate media. Once we are clearly informed that we have been lied to I think we’ll need to see new faces. It’s time to tell the stark truth, and we need full coverage of what Iraqis really want. We forgot to ask...and I’m sure they have alot of eccellent ideas on how to rebuild THEIR country since their culture has deep roots. We need to respect that. And we need to humbly give them a hand if they ask it...it’s the least we can do after all the horrifying damage we’ve done. Naomi Klein wrote an article which might help answer these questions you put to us. Read the whole article: www.truthout.org/docs_2005/050705f.shtml We all need to reach out to each other ,now. Many of us are accomplices because of our silence or our laziness in reluctance to question the intentions of our leaders or listen to the criticism.

• 12 June 2005, 11:13

  Looks like two of those addresses didn’t go through. Try these: www.commomdreams.org/views05/0505-23.htm and bellaciao.org/en/article.php3?id_article=6295

• 12 June 2005, 21:28

  I agree - Please ask the Iraqi’s. We have shown enough US arrogance this century.
  Millions of US citizens (and citizens around the world) could not stop the neocons from invading Iraq. While I believe that we are finally reaching a tipping point (of getting out of Iraq) here in US, there are still many Americans who are unable (or unwilling) to see the neocon agenda as US Imperialism.

  I am still trying to understand why US has so many Americans unable to put themselves in the position of Iraqi’s who continue to suffer many deaths. When will the life of an Iraqi have equal value to these Americans? Can they only care about a US life? Will they ever understand the interconnectedness of us all, as Kucinich so well expressed in the run up to war and while campaigning? Sorry if I mangled your words, Dennis.

  How did US end up with so many who cannot visualize what Iraqi’s face daily having to live with the destruction of their infrastructure? I find US arrogance (and self-centeredness) intolerable and actually believe that neocons are counting on US arrogance as a national attitude in order to accomplish their goals.
  I do understand that WH and those in this administration are quick to sell ’But we have made you (Americans) safer.’ Everything that comes out of this admin preys on US citizens wanting to feel safer. Where is the ’What is best for Iraqi’s?’ and ’What do Iraqi’s want?’ from this admininstration? Well, I certainly do not expect any change of attitude from this WH - they have their agenda and it looks nothing like the vision I and a growing majority of Americans have for US role in the world.

  As long as Americans are comfortable with others dying and other lands being destroyed, they will buy into the neocon propaganda that US is making THEM safer. It will not be until our economy fails and more Americans are out of jobs, that Americans will begin to question and turn against this current administration. Then - oh my - will we hear an earful!

  Are Americans now being asked where they want their tax dollars to go? This president and staff and this Senate and this House have already pretty much told us where to go. Elected trying to represent reasonable views are shut out from debate and from committees.

  Republican elected rally around neocon foreign and domestic policy and shut down debate with other elected who are trying to provide alternatives. This neocon admin did not listen to those against invading Iraq then and are not about to listen to us now about getting out of Iraq.
  As more Americans shift out of their own comfort zone and become informed on where current policies are leading, we can expect to see a rise in discontent with current administration.
  What will it take from all of us and will things be in place in time that will allow our government to shift back to a republic representative of the people or will it be too late?

  As I cannot imagine living in a neocon world, I do hold on to hope that people will put their energy and support behind leaders such as Kucinich and Abercrombie, Conyers and the other 90 in the House who are working tirelessly to represent us - on so many issues. We are all in this together - fighting for a better united world that becomes a people based economy and not a military based economy. War is archaic - let’s help the neocons understand that people have evolved beyond a mitlitary complex and space weaponry.

  Every day I still read US media reports which I find insulting to the capabilities of Iraqi citizens.
  Condescending reports by the pentagon, members of our senate and house. All designed to sway the American public into staying in Iraq such as we experienced this morning on national TV programming where Senator Biden, a democrat, continued to support the neocon agenda and in doing so, promotes more death and destruction in Iraq. Senator Biden wants more troops in Iraq - stated emphatically that he has always wanted more troops in Iraq. I take this to mean that he supports US Imperialism around the world. Will he ask the Iraqi’s what they want?

  • 14 June 2005, 04:57

    Kucinich is an idiot. To all of you "Americans" who support our enemy and run down our country you are not "peace advocates" you are traitors. Few if any of you have been to Iraq or have any first hand experience with the issues you pontificate over. You just regurgitate the same old discontent, anti-America, anti-Bush loser liberal Democrat line of B.S. Perhaps you will get the idea when a nuke goes off here on the homeland - then you will sing cum-by-ya and wave your little American flag. Failure to be proactive in todays world littered with zelots and WMDs will exact a cost you cannot begin to comprehend. You only serve to undermine these efforts. When someone proffers a point of view you don’t agree with they are "PSYOPS" agents. Your divisive agenda serves nothing positive for our country. Respectful disagreement and FACTUAL debate are not in your agenda - you want to push the same old tired conspiracies (corporate evil, partisanship, goverment evil etc.) that do nothing positive. The irony is you believe what you are doing is positive - IT’S NOT! I know you only want to hear more supporting negative anti-US/Bush commentary but, just as I work to expand my understanding of other opinions you could benefit by doing the same. There is a reason the mainstream media doesn’t support and encourage your agenda - they want to maintain their credibility!

  • 17 June 2005, 14:10

    Please arrange the following letters to form a word: BGIOT. It seems that everything you were ranting and screaming about can be applied just as strongly to you! As Jesus himself advised us, don’t try to remove the splinter in another’s eye before removing the log in your own. It seems that the log is blinding you!

    I am open to debate and discussion, having lived in various countries in Europe and the Near East, and I can say that the people who live there are just as human as I am, and I hope you aspire to be. All I could read in your diatribe was hatred and spit, *not* reasoned argument. If that is all you have to offer, then you have nothing new to bring to the discussion, and should better remain out of it.