More Iraqi abuse photos found

Forum posts

• 6 May 2004, 12:29

  is a scandal

  • 6 May 2004, 20:16

    Yes is a scandal

  • 6 May 2004, 22:30

    As a former Army Maj. I am in shock that any commander could have let this happen on their watch. It looks like a cover up already. Why slow to act and tell, why have not these guilty been hunted down. The people who have done this have not only done it not only to the prisoners, but to the world and the good Americans they serve. Shame shame shame I am so sorry world. It is time to make people pay. Step down secretary Don Rumpfeld and Mr. Bush you just lost my vote.

  • 7 May 2004, 08:27

    Mr Army Maj, I am proud of your words. What makes my blood boil is this phrase "they are threatening our way of life" have you heard this phrase often? It dosent make sense!! No one is threatening the american way of life. The terrorists are cruel people but their actions have nothing to do with threatening the american way of life, they do this for other reasons. They are reacting to constantly being invaded and persecuted by other nations and these torture pictures that we are seeing lately on the internet and news takes the cake and will promote more terrorism, they have no army, this will be the only way for them to vendicate and believe me they probably will very soon unfortunately for all of us. I have always said that Bush was a dangerous man and he has proved me right. What are we to do? Werent we there in Iraq to promote FREEDOM and MOSTLY to show Irachens that they can live in a torture free democratic world? OH MY GOD, these photos are just to show the opposite .......It is time to make people pay as you say. AND just as they PERSECUTED and justly trialed NAZI WAR CRIMINALS, I want to know WHAT ARE THEY GOING TO DO TO THESE PEOPLE WHO HAVE DONE THIS?? I bet you anything nothing at all. And you are so right how didnt anyone know? I work on a Navy base but I am am Italian and I KNOW that things like this cannot be done without anyone knowing about it. I am so embarassed, there are so many good Americans but the world will eventually hate ALL americans JUST BECAUSE OF THOSE TWO ANTICHRISTS, Rumsfield and THE LOVED BUSH FAMILY.
    thank you Sir,
    I was proud to hear your post, you are a decent man.
    Lina

  • 10 May 2004, 09:32

    I cannot believe that any adult with a third grade education would say something as stupid as the secretary and the president must go. Hello reactionaries, the president is not God so he is not all knowing and cannot be everywhere and there are bad men and women everywhere. Senator Kerry evens states the horrible things by a very small minority of "bad" soldiers in vietnam. Get a life people. And sir, if you really did serve in any capacity, then you know how the current soldiers highly respect president George W. Bush and the secretary. I am so glad that you are still in the minority with your opinion and the polls reflect you are wrong now and will be again in November. President Bush does not need or want any votes from someone as fickle as you.

    Thank you God for the wisdom to know the difference!!!!

    Gus

  • 11 May 2004, 10:09

    Dear Sir,
    I CANNOT BELIEVE THAT ANY ADULT LIKE YOU WITH NO EDUCATION SAYS WHAT YOU SAY.
    Are you crazy?? Ok I will explain to you.............MR BUSH AND COMPANY have the RESPONSABILITY and RAPPRESENT YOUR country....So....he is paid A LOT OF MONEY, as he is the COMMANDER AND CHIEF OF ALL MILITARY USA FORCES...therefore, HE IS RESPONSABLE, YOU ARE IN MINORITY and are ridiculous.....it dosent matter if he knew or not, HE IS RESPONSABLE, that comes with THE PRESIDENTS JOB, is that clear to you??? President Bush has made so many mistakes and has caused so much damage.......so wake up...!!!

  • 29 May 2004, 17:46

    criminal primitive sexual torture of prisoners is typical and representative for american people, it was the same in vietnam...
    shame you, american high tech nation

  • 10 June 2004, 05:29

    Abu ghareeb scandal shows the real face of the american civilization

  • 2 March 2005, 22:17

    its realy shame for the amirecans and what they did in iraq will never be deleted from the iraqi memory.....till this moment i cant belive what i saw .....shame & ..shame

• 6 May 2004, 22:29

  Sorry, is not a scandal or abuse.
  It is criminal, torture and a War Crime. !

  1. Excerpt from MG Taguba’s report. In one of the two previous reports used by M G Taguba as references for his, the third sequential, investigation (Italics are my emphasis):

  "With respect to interrogation, MG Miller’s Team recommended that
  CJTF-7 dedicate and train a detention guard force subordinate to
  the Joint Interrogation Debriefing Center (JIDC) Commander that
  “sets the conditions for the successful interrogation and
  exploitation of internees/detainees.”

  Regarding Detention Operations, MG Miller’s team stated that the
  function of Detention Operations is to provide a safe, secure, and
  humane environment that supports the expeditious collection of
  intelligence. However, it also stated “it is essential that the
  guard force be actively engaged in setting the conditions for
  successful exploitation of the internees.”

  Comment: Maj General Miller was previously responsible for the management of detention and interrogation/intelligence collection at Guanatanamo Bay, Cuba (Gitmo). He has subsequently been appointed to manage all detention operations in Iraq after the removal of M G Karpinski. Please note, M G Miller and a team of 30-odd ’specialists’ visited Abu Ghrieb in July/August 2003 with the specific aim of improving "interrogation/intelligence collection and set the conditions for the successful interrogation and
  exploitation of internees/detainees", based on ’lessons learned’ through management and techniques he and staff developed at Gitmo, since 9/11. Remarkably, M G Miller is now conducting restricted tours for the media and promising improved conditions at Abu Gharieb. I suggest the subsequent events re the photographs and torture that took place from Nov ’03 thru to Jan ’04 are likely a ’direct’ causual consequence of his and his teams ’sanctioned by Command’ efforts. M G Miller can in no way be regarded as someone without ’blood’ on his hands. Cover-up ?

  2. Excerpt from MG Taguba’s report, (Italics are my emphasis):

  "In general, U.S. civilian contract personnel (Titan Corporation, CACI, etc….), third-country nationals and local contractors do not appear to be properly supervised within the detention facility at Abu Ghraib..."

  My Comment: ’Third-country nationals’ is an intelligence community euphemism for nationals from a ’politically sensitive’ country. The phrase is used to mask ’National Security’/Classified operations in conjunction with other nations Military, security, Intelligence communities, i.e. CIA, Shin Bet, MI6, etc. Note contracted US interrogators/translators, local (Iraqi, ex Iraqi Mukhabarrat (de-ba’athified ?) interrogators/translators are commented on collectively with ’third country nationals’. Therefore the clear implication is the probability of interrogators/translators from Israel, Syria, Saudi Arabia, etc directly participating in or offering training expertise re interrogators/translation/analysis throughout Abu Gharieb, possibly Iraq, Afghanistan, Gitmo with the full sanctioned knowledge of US Intelligence community & military command.

  Follow this link for a reference to one of the identified interrogators (Joe Ryan, and a portion of his online diary whilst an intterogator at Abi Gharieb) employed in wing 1A as having indentified in his resume having attended Israeli Interrogation Course. http://billmon.org/archives/001450.html#comments. Further comments/analysis re the specifics of Joe Ryans diary to follow.

  3. Excerpts from MG Taguba’s report, (Capitalisation my emphasis):

  "The various detention facilities operated by the 800th MP Brigade have routinely held persons brought to them by other government agencies (OGAs) WITHOUT ACCOUNTING FOR THEM, KNOWING their identities, or even THE REASON for their detention. The Joint Interrogation and Debriefing Center at Abu Ghraib called these detainees "GHOST DETAINEES". ON AT LEAST ONE OCCASION, the 320th MP Battalion at Abu Ghraib held a handful of "ghost detainees" (6-8) for OGAs that they moved around within the facility to HIDE THEM from a visiting International Committee of the Red Cross survey team. This maneuver was DECEPTIVE, contrary to Army Doctrine and in VIOLATION OF INTERNATIONAL LAW…."(Findings and Recommendations, Part II, No. 33)

  My Comment: Other government agencies (OGAs) is a routine Intelligence euphemism for non-military intelligence agencies such as ASIS, MI6, FBI, NSA, CIA, etc. In the US Military/Intelligence context it almost always means CIA/NSA. Ghost Detainees are those that are not documented, processed or recorded in any way in order to systematically deny them Legal, Human and International Law and Genevea Convention rights protections. It is a practice that came to prominence throughout Latin America, Sudan, 1960’s Algiers, etc. Such activities clearly indicate a known, sanctioned, systemic Military/Intelligence/Government Agency command sanctioned policy of creating ’Disappeared’, ultimately resulting in extreme forms of unnaccountable torture and ultimaley ’disposal’ (i.e. murder, via Argentinian Deathsquads, circa Vietnam ’Phoenix’ operations in Vietnam/Laos, etc). Therefore it is highly probable this activity also occurs throughout any other area of operations of the US/UK etc in the so called ’war on terror’, ie. the Globe. This is outrageous !

  There’s no way in the world the practice of keeping "ghost detainees" in secret confinement - in flagrant violation of the Geneva Convention - can be written off as a ’non-systemic’ ’isolated abuse.’ This is like something out of Kiss of the Spider Woman, or journalist Jacobo Timerman’s account of his time in a secret Argentine political prison, Prisoner Without a Name, Cell Without a Number http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0299182444/103-3183057-6828619?v=glance. Is this what CIA counterterrorism chief Cofer Black meant when he said http://www.fas.org/irp/congress/2002_hr/092602black.html that after 9/11, "the gloves came off?" And did the humanity come off with them ?

  Follow this link for relevant references: http://billmon.org/archives/001455.html#comments. Please note the Amnesty International reference to suspicion of similar activities occurring at the High Value Detainee (HVD) section of detention facilities at the US Bagram Airforce Base in Afghanistan.

  4. An example of the extreme torture and subsequent death (murder ?) during interrogation, and ’disposal’ of a ’ghost detainee’ by the CIA at Abu Ghrieb. Yet another ’disappeared’ (you may have seen the Photo of the obviously ’beaten to death’ detainee packed in ice on a guerney ):

  Frederick’s version http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/?040510fa_fact of a relevant incident is a good deal more, ah, colorful:
  In November, Frederick wrote, an Iraqi prisoner under the control of what the Abu Ghraib guards called “O.G.A.,” or other government agencies—that is, the C.I.A. and its paramilitary employees—was brought to his unit for questioning. “They stressed him out so bad that the man passed away. They put his body in a body bag and packed him in ice for approximately twenty-four hours in the shower. . . . The next day the medics came and put his body on a stretcher, placed a fake IV in his arm and took him away.” The dead Iraqi was never entered into the prison’s inmate-control system, Frederick recounted, “and therefore never had a number.”

  Comment: as above for para 4. This is the end result re ’ghost detainees’, undocumented, unaccountable torture, death and dissapearance.

  5. Why is the Taguba report classified Secret/NOFORN (no Foriegn governement dissemination) when it is a formal US Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ) investigation ?:

  TORTURE REPORT MAY HAVE BROKEN CLASSIFICATION RULES http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/secrecy/2004/05/050504.html
  Posted May 5, 2004 09:33 PM PST
  By classifying an explosive report on the torture of Iraqi prisoners as "Secret," the Pentagon may have violated official secrecy policies, which prohibit the use of classification to conceal illegal activities.

  My Comment: I suggest it had been classified SECRET/NOFORN because of the oblique, passing references that clearly indicate sanctioned, systemic, patently criminal, multi-theatre practices since at least 9/11 discussed above in para 2 & 3.

  • 9 May 2004, 17:01

    It is my opinion that the abuse of the Iraqi prisoners was inexcusable for the personel who committed the acts- and they should answer for them- but, do I think that the acts were condoned knowingly by others? No.

    Would the President, or Sec. of War have stopped this if they knew it was happening? Of course. I am sure there are prison guards in U.S. prisons abusing prisoners. There are rumors of this. I am sure it goes on in all administrations, but I don’t think that the administration in power at the time such revelations is at fault.

    There are always bad apples that must be weeded out. Their immediate commanders must be looked at with the thot that their control of the situation and supervision was lacking. However, I am sure that such acts were against policy.

    I am sure that there was no encouragement of such actions from leaders too much higher than the immediate situation. There has always been such things as this in wars. They must be dealt with at the level at which they occur.

  • 10 May 2004, 14:53

    The abuse of the Iraqi prisoners was wrong no doubt about it and no buts. The tatics used to get prisoners to talk have been used since the beginning of time. If you think that this is new to any country including the US, I have some ski resorts in Arizona I would like to take you to. The only thing new here are digital cameras and the Internet. What would the news have been like with all the death and abuse that went on in Vietnam? We are too spoiled in America and I believe everyone who wants to sing "All We Need Is Love," needs to be put on a plane with Sean Penn, Ed Asner and Bono, and go have a big "I Love You Man" party. Because we all know that if the president would just reach out with love to Osama and the radical Iraqi groups, the war would be over tommorow.

    And the cow jumps over the moon.

    Gus

  • 11 May 2004, 04:34

    I agree with you Gus. In fact, these are the freshest pix I’ve seen since Paris Hilton.

    Don’t worry, the american people really, secretly lust for porn, and here it is.

    Funny how WAR does funny things to people, like bring out their fundamental appetites, like sex and violence.

    Remember the Janet Jackson furor during an otherwise bone-splitting Superbowl? See what I mean?

    By November, the half of adults who vote will let our President know
    that doing a little fooling around with arabs is OK by us.

    See you at the polls... hey, "polling"... you know what else that word means,
    in animal husbandry jargon. Of course, you don’t,
    but I’d be pretty careful in the voting booth at your local polling place.

    If a ballot drops to the floor, don’t pick it up!

    simrsumr@aol.com

  • 24 October 2004, 23:14

    hi this is sara a muslim pakistanie.
    tell me wht the hell is this in pic. is this wht america say we fight for terrirism and humanity.is this is all the fake fight going all around.one thing i wanna add i have the pics in which these us soldiers are raping a women on gun point.and much more which a person see he want to kill them for that,and wht did the president of america did against all this.just sorry and everything is erased.
    this is all shit wht this president say and this america policy is they are inhuman they are wild people they are double face.
    and if no one is to punish them so dont worryon the day of jugment they will have to pay for it.
    if i was the president i would have made these soldiers naked in market and would have cut there organs on which they rap womens and do this,
    shame on ur america,we hate u